6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

[Fuken]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

I see no beginning or ending. Shakyamuni receives transmission together with the ancestors and with you and I.

If we see it as a line in every single step, this is a wrong view. If we see it as a circle, this is also a wrong view. Seen as a single point might be closer to the truth. not even there? That would be denying what is right in front of the nose.

A quilt to keep a child warm, or a suit of armor to protect a warrior, or a bouquet of flowers to brighten up a room, or crown of thorns passed down from king to king.

Shakyamuni is just us.

Yours in Practice,
Jordan

[Shohei]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Shakyamuni may have been realized by the universe, 2500 +/- years ago, but if he were the beginning, he would also have to be the end. Sooo this: "I am Buddha, I am awakened" This is all encompassing, Shakyamuni being realized by the universe, no end or beginning- always ringing now and Now and Now.

After reading and contemplating and sometimes stumbling with what happened back then ... I have a good many lifetimes to live and die on the cushion and off before I understand this fully.
There is no back then. This separation translates in to light years apart and so I really still do not fully understand.

I'm really digging reading these both books as one btw. Very helpful.
Thank you all who went before and after me, I benefit greatly

Gassho
Shohei

[BrianW]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Thank you all who went before and after me, I benefit greatly

Yes indeed!

Such wonderful content in these books….such wonderful posts….I’m not sure I can add that much. A general theme I see is transformation with time being both linear and circular.

I am intrigued by the reference to the old plum tree. The thorns symbolic of suffering and flowers the enlightened mind. Perhaps a plum tree has some special significance? In any event, Keizan’s statement seemed more static, “A splendid branch issues from the old plum tree; At the same time, obstructing thorns issue everywhere.” In short, the “splendid branch” and the “obstructing thorns” are present at the same time. Hixon’s reference seems much more dynamic, “A single green branch springs from the gnarled trunk” “Now the plum branch is bearing fragrant blossoms.” “Miraculously fruit of every type comes forth.”

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

[Tb]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Hi.

I think Cook says it well in the words of Keizans Teisho,

If you say that you become enlightened with Gotama, or that Gotama becomes enlightened with you, this is not Gotama's enlightenement

So elegant, yet so true.
If you disperse of the notion of you-me, here-there and now-then, what have you got?

The clouds in the sky not blocking out the sun.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Hans]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Hello Folks,

just a thought that occured to me during reading Hixon's chapter (and I'm not the first one to have had this thought): If we de not believe that we are of the exact same essence as Shakyamuni in some way that would allow us to realize original enlightenment, we should drop all this Buddhism stuff and invest our time in something more useful, something more fun. If you are not the Buddha, who is? and if you're not it, why bother?

I really enjoy Hixon's style btw.

Gassho,

Hans

[monkton]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

We begin at the beginning of the

... where? Line/circle/point? No beginning, no 'there' to be there. So here we are - or maybe that should be, "here we is" in order to get away from the idea of our separateness.

As quilts go, the one covering us is fairly prickly, what with those thorns and all, but it does have the advantage of being all encompassing.

On the next day set aside for explanations, I want you to present your understanding with a decisive word.

He's not asking for much in chapter one. I suspect we should try not to use 'and'.

Thank you for the contributions so far,

gassho,
Monkton

[JamesVB]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Does Shakyamuni receive Transmission from all the Ancestors? From you and me?

How does the "Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma" get 'transmitted' to an 'Individual' when Shakyamuni purportedly stated "I & the great earth & beings simultaneously achieve the Way?"

1) To be transmitted requires a lineal migration of time.
2) To be transmitted from 'Individual' to an 'other individual' requires a deluded perception of multiple sentient beings.

Both statements 1 & 2 appear to contradict Guatama's exaltation upon deep awakening & Cook's description of the "principle of enlightenment" as written on the top of Pg. 31 of Transmitting the Light (TTL).

Isn't the concept of "Transmitting" a manifestation of attachment; isn't it an attempt to grasp or cling to an ideology named True Dharma?

Is it a quilt of many threads, covering us and keeping us warm?
viewtopic.php?p=36746#p36746

Quilts can be pulled up over our heads in an attempt to blind our 'selves' to that which IS, and they can suffocate us.

May we, should we, need we even try to say?

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi svaha! ...and there never was another shore on which to arrive.

[Silva]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

I'm still floundering in deep water. Sometimes my head pops out and I can breath in some understanding but then I go back under again.
My head is full of questions which I cannot even formulate. I need a teacher.
All these beautiful words just shine for an instant and then disolve . Understanding intellectually, I don't care for commentaries how ever beautiful,
isn't enough for me. I wonder if enlightenment actually exists. How can enlightenment exist when there is nothing to enlighten? What is transmission without a subject to transmit ? What is transmission without an object to transmit to?
I just want to be able to say that I know this because this is my experience. How can I talk of a dish Iv'e never tasted ?
I need guidance towards living this experience myself.
I think I shall put these books on the shelf for now and get on with a Mind of Clover.

gassho

Sylvie

[jrh001]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

It's mid-winter here, short dull days and infinitely long nights. Zen master Keizan asks for my decisive word of understanding. 'How do I tell him?' I think to myself. 'I really don't get it... at all.' I share some chocolate with him. Of course he knows I have nothing to say. Lucky for me he likes chocolate.

JohnH

[JamesVB]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

I'm still floundering in deep water.
...Understanding intellectually, ..., isn't enough for me.
I wonder if enlightenment actually exists. ...
How can I talk of a dish Iv'e never tasted ? ...
gassho
Sylvie

Hi Sylvie,

After reading your post, the following quote by T. S. Eliot came to mind.

- We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

If I thought that my journeys in life would only result in my arrival back at the beginning where I started from, I may never set out on the journey. I perceive the path to enlightenment to be just such a journey. One that leads us back to the place where we started, but a journey that leaves us with an altered perception such that we can know that-which-we-have-always-been for the first time.

Walk gently on your journey.

[Taigu]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Salut Sylvie,

Souhairerais-tu t'entretenir avec moi...N'hesite pas. Nous pourrions utiliser Skype. Voici mon email: turlurpierre@hotmail.com

bien a toi


gassho


Taigu

[Silva]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Merci Taigu,

certainement oui!

Lucky for me he likes chocolate.

Last night Keizan curtly said "No chocolate here, not even a sweet !" and walked out of the room. I searched the pantry, found cooking chocolate, melted and stirred in cream, served in a small bowl and brought it to him, he chuckled...
What a relief!

gassho,

Sylvie

[Taigu]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Sylie,

J'attends que tu me contactes...email moi.

gassho


Taigu

[jrh001]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

...
Last night Keizan curtly said "No chocolate here, not even a sweet !" and walked out of the room. I searched the pantry, found cooking chocolate, melted and stirred in cream, served in a small bowl and brought it to him, he chuckled...
What a relief!

It's good to find some relief. I had a pleasant cup of tea with Ryokan today.

gassho,

JohnH

[Genkai]

Re: 6/18 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Shakyamuni

Shohei mentioned it's great reading these books two-as-one... isn't it greater still to have this forum, now reading three-as-one? Or really with each individual, dozens-as-one? Or perhaps the greater lesson is it's just all one.

I've been reading and re-reading and re-visitng all week. Keizan seems to be challenging the reader to dare to comprehend. Hixon picks up where he left off, neither exactly speaking in riddles, but at the same time working very hard to make us work hard...

All so that the reader doesn't merely absorb facts and data and dates/places/times like reading a history textbook. There's meaning wrapped in meaning wrapped in meaning throughout both texts, challenging every step of the way. What these texts are saying isn't merely printed ink on paper. Or maybe I'm over-thinking it...

I've been all over the place, and right here the whole time. Shakyamuni was a man who lived way back then and way over there... but enlightenment, awakening, that perception and knowing of reality, isn't limited by places and times and linear thinking. At the moment of awakening, there's no longer a body sitting under a tree called Gautama, there's a greater (different) being, transcending times, places, linear thinking. And yet the body sitting under the tree walked and sat and ate and slept and (most importantly) taught for 40 more years.

On one hand, he was the first in the line. On the same hand, he and and the entire line are one in the same. All a matter of perspectives, all equally right. Transmission from body to body can be linear, while transmission from awakened being to awakened being (or all beings?) can be wide open with no such limits and artificial boundaries. All a matter of perspective, if your mind is open to unfamiliar/unconditioned perspectives, there are no limits to the understandings.

My answer to each of Jundo's questions posed in the first post: "Yes."