5/21 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

[Rimon]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

Great! I'll get the books and join too.

gassho

Da5id

[Jundo]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post; I apologize in advance if it belongs somewhere else (please advise).

I just joined Treeleaf Zendo today. The book club looks very interesting. However, I wil NEVER catch up, and wouldn't want to "pound through" this book - I'd much prefer to read it the way Jundo is leading - a little bit at a time, plenty of time for reflection and absorption.

Anyway, my question - is this a book I can jump into where you are all at, or is it better to start from the beginning?

Thanks in advance for your advice,

Craig

Hi Craig,

Welcome again.

As in all Shikantaza, this is not a matter of rushing forward or getting to someplace. There is nothing to "catch up." Just here and just here and just here. 1 page is 1 page, 100 pages is 100 pages. No place to get to, even as we simultaneously move ahead in our reading. Appreciate each page, each word each letter ... each space swallowing and giving bloom to the words and letters ... for what it is ...

That being said ... we are about to start a new book (actually two books that we will read together). If you order today ... you might get them in time. So, right on time! Please follow the link ... :wink:

viewtopic.php?p=33231#p33231

Gassho, Jundo

[CraigfromAz]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post; I apologize in advance if it belongs somewhere else (please advise).

I just joined Treeleaf Zendo today. The book club looks very interesting. However, I wil NEVER catch up, and wouldn't want to "pound through" this book - I'd much prefer to read it the way Jundo is leading - a little bit at a time, plenty of time for reflection and absorption.

Anyway, my question - is this a book I can jump into where you are all at, or is it better to start from the beginning?

Thanks in advance for your advice,

Craig

[BrianW]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

On the other hand, if you had not been there as you were ... the children might have suffered in other ways.

True and I guess one never knows the trajectory of influence one's actions may eventually have.

The Bodhisattva vows ... To save all Sentient Beings ... though Delusions inexhaustable ...

So true ...yet delusions are sometimes so difficult to witness.

Gassho,
BrianW

[Jundo]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

Although I have been praised by others for being nurturant and caring, I am afraid I have done little to really help the plight of these children.

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

On the other hand, if you had not been there as you were ... the children might have suffered in other ways.

The Bodhisattva vows ... To save all Sentient Beings ... though Delusions inexhaustable ...

[BrianW]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

Dogen instructed,

Whether they seem good or bad, the deeds of a person of the Way, are results of deep consideration. They cannot be fathomed by ordinary people.
A long time ago, Eshin Sozu1 once had someone beat a deer that was eating grass in the garden and drive it away.
Someone asked him, “You seem to lack compassion. Why did you begrudge the grass to the deer and have it driven away?”

The Sozu replied, “If I did not beat it and drive it away, the deer would eventually become familiar with human beings. And if it ever went near an evil person, it would surely be killed. This is why I drove it away.”

Although he seemed lacking in compassion by beating the deer and driving it away, deep in his heart he had compassion.

This passage really captured my attention this week. What exactly do we mean by compassion? Kolhberg's stage theory of moral development came to mind as one of the stages is often referred to as the "nice boy" "good girl" orientation. Individuals at this stage are concerned with what pleases others. I believe....and I am going out on a limb on this a bit, that we may often mistake "compassion" with being nice...or even worse "appearing" nice in the eyes of others. Complex situations often require considerable thought as to what is the most "compassionate" response. For example, over the past few years I have been involved in sporadically taking care of the children of another family...(at times) feeding, housing, and taking them to events. It is not a lack of money, just a lack of concern for the kids. In retrospect, I believe I have just enabled this family to be irresponsible. A much more "compassionate" response might have been to be straight with the parents in terms of their responsibilities. Although everyone knows of this families lack of care, no one says anything as that would cause waves. Now that these kids are adolescents they show symptoms of poor parenting, perhaps even psychopathology. Although I have been praised by others for being nurturant and caring, I am afraid I have done little to really help the plight of these children.

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

[Seishin the Elder]

Re: 5/14 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 6-7 to 6-11

I really liked Dogen's message in these sections when he speaks of just practicing the way. His emphasis on just doing it, of following even if we do not think we are ready; that we do not think of beginning practicing only after we secure the proper shelter, clothes and other gear. It was especially poignant to me when he says to "follow...without harboring personal views". Just to follow the teachers and other practitioners simply and that one would "naturally become a person of the Way".

Too often we want to know all the terms and have all the "right gear" and in spending our time and energies going after these things, these superficial things, we actually put off ever truly beginning practice. We think we cannot do it without the proper cushion, or the correct color robe, or incense , or bell or........ Dogen exhorts us to step up on the Way and start walking even as naked as we are and unprepared.

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill

[Jundo]

These sections are a little long and dense, so just four this week ...

http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/common_ ... 06-07.html

Gassho, Jundo