Realizing Genjokoan - Chapter 4 -

[Tairin]

This is a wonderful chapter and once again Okumura does an outstanding job of providing his knowledge to Dogen’s original text.

While I get the point of this section is really about the perspective we impose on the real world I also see a lot of discussion on the Absolute and Relative being implied in the writing (not two). I was surprised that Okumura didn’t delve there and use those terms but perhaps it is coming up.

The discussion about flowers and weeds brought to my mind mushrooms. Mushrooms are just mushrooms yet some can be eaten and others will make us quite sick. While it is important to understand mushrooms as mushrooms (absolute) it is important to distinguish the difference (relative).

As an adult I’ve acquired a seafood allergy. I used to love eating sushi but now if I eat it I will become extremely sick. Other people can eat seafoods without problems. Seafoods are just seafoods (absolute) yet again there is a distinction (relative) that is important.

As I understand it this practice is being able to see that both absolute and relative are there at the same time and really one.

Hopefully I’ve expressed myself well and this makes sense.

Edit: to answer Jundo’s question Can you give some examples of how the same objective, potentially frustrating situation in your life would be very different between when you (1) demand circumstance fit your standards and demands, or (2) let the circumstances just be the circumstances and flow along with (and be one with) you? Any real life examples?

Each year I grow a vegetable garden including to tomato plants. The squirrels in my neighbourhood take and eat quite a few of them. They take the tomatoes off the plant, partially eat them and then leave the remains in the lawn or on my deck for me to clean up. It is frustrating to see so many tomatoes go to waste but then I realize to the squirrel they aren’t my tomatoes they are just things to eat. They also don’t recognize the deck as mine or that they are making a mess to up cleaned up. They are just squirrels doing what squirrels do. Everything else - my tomatoes, my deck, the mess I have to clean up - is the story I am making up in my mind


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Tokan]

Hi all

In answer to Jundo's question Can you give some examples of how the same objective, potentially frustrating situation in your life would be very different between when you (1) demand circumstance fit your standards and demands, or (2) let the circumstances just be the circumstances and flow along with (and be one with) you? Any real life examples?

For me, the key thing I notice between the two approaches is the sense of separateness that comes with (1) and how we then 'fix' the situation into something concrete and immovable, compared to the sense of acceptance and understanding that develops with (2), and how situations then seem fluid, dynamic, and temporary.

In the book this really stuck out for me: Delusion is not some fixed thing within our minds that, if eliminated, will be replaced by enlightenment. How many spiritual paths, including Buddhist ones, preach or teach this message - that enlightenment will replace your current defective deluded state of mind (in only 12 weeks and with only four low monthly payments - get your money back if not satisfied!!!). Dogen immediately illustrates: that zazen is not a practice meant to make human beings into buddhas; zazen is itself Buddha’s practice.

You know, or you probably don't, that I used to be involved with OBC in the UK. I remember one priest telling me that attaining enlightenment was like climbing a glass mountain, and when you get to the top there is an inverted glass mountain to climb )i.e. impossible to achieve. Well I don't know if he was trying to be cute with me or not, but it was a demoralising message to hear - oh except that if I became a monk it greatly increased my chances of success! And yet they taught from Dogen, the same written material that the author of this book and Jundo both utilise. I guess it is a bit like baking - three bakers can use the same ingredients and still come up with different cakes. I'm grateful for your teaching Jundo, compared with OBC's. Not to get into the 'good, the bad, and the ugly' of Buddhism, but I think their emphasis on monasticism left them a little 'cold' in human terms. I could go on, but I will close with my favourite few lines from this chapter....

This is not the self awakening to reality, but zazen awakening to zazen, Dharma awakening to Dharma, and Buddha awakening to Buddha. Zazen practices zazen; it is not that a separate individual practices zazen to become enlightened. This is the meaning of Dōgen Zenji’s expression “practice and enlightenment are one.”


Gassho, Tokan (sat)

[Heiso]

As a botanist, I might say that the distinction between weeds and flowers is one of perspective, and I think that also translates to Dogen's usage here.

Whereas we might want flowers, the weeds of life have much to offer too once we take time to become intimate with them.

Many of my favourite flowers are considered weeds but they are some of the most amazing plants we have. Among these are dandelions whose leaves and roots help strengthen the liver and provide potassium, nettles which are incredibly nutritious, chickweed which soothes inflamed skin and plantain that can be made into ointment for treating bits and stings.

Likewise, the various unwanted parts of our lives such as illness, loss, not getting what we want, bring things into our lives that might not have otherwise been there.

My life of illness is incredibly weed infested yet still beautiful and produces flowers and nourishment.

In all life, weeds and flowers grow together, both valuable just as they are, as long as we don't ask a rose to be a dandelion or a dandelion a rose.

Each time I read this book, I am incredibly grateful for Shohaku Okumura's understanding and words. Together with Uchiyama Roshi's 'Opening the Hand of Thought', and maybe 'How to Cook Your Life', I would consider Realizing Genjokoan to express the fundamental essence of our practice here.

Parts of the final two paragraphs do this beautifully:

"Our practice of Zazen enables us to see clearly that we are part of the world, part of nature and part of Buddha. It lets us see that we don't need to personally become a buddha, but rather we need to awaken to the reality that from the beginning we are living Buddha's life.

By letting go of our thoughts, of our consciousness, we actualize the self that is connected with all dharmas. This is not the self awakening to reality, but zazen awakening to zazen, Dharma awakening to Dharma, and Buddha awakening to Buddha."

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

That's beautifully put, thank you Kokuu

Gassho,
Neil

StLah

[Kotei]

Thank you Kokuu,

I was thinking about my relationship with goutweed (Aegopodium podagraria?) in such a way, but you said it better, than I can.

Gardeners know it as a pest, because of it's powerful rhizome.
I am fighting it in my garden.
I love the large, fresh green, flowering patches of it near the old gravel pit, I help renaturating.
I put it's flowers in the altar vase.
Like the cloisters in the medieval and the people during the wars, I welcome it's flavour of parsley and carrot raw as salad and the spinach like as cooked vegetable.
It helps against gout, rheumatism and more and contains several minerals and vitamins.
In a book about growing wild vegetables, the Reverend Mother of a cloister wrote about it's usage in the kitchen and fighting it as a weed.
"The fight against goutweed shows the vainness of human struggle"

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[brucef]

I was just reading this article by Shohaku Okumura on the Zen Site. I've said it before in this forum, but I really like the way he explains things.

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Dogen_Teachings/Genjokoan_Okumara.htm

Gassho

Bruce

Sat today, twice, on this very long day that still has a few hours to go.

[Ryoku]

I really enjoyed Rev OkamuraÂ’s synopsis of this section of Genjokoan. Dogen comments on so much of the human experience with each sentence in his writings. For me that is one of the challenging aspects of studying his teachings; they are so all-encompassing, much like the main sutras in Zen.

Similar to the study of jazz piano where we talk about getting a tune or a style ‘into your hands’ by playing it many different ways at many different tempos using different scales, voicings, etc, reading different commentaries on various teachings helps to get the main point ‘into your marrow’.

‘Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice-enlightenment is delusion.’

This frame of mind seems to be humanityÂ’s usual state. We take our ideas, thoughts, beliefs, go out into the world, and start from there seeking truth and understanding. Already weÂ’ve missed the point. We need to almost work backwards from where we think the starting point lies. The world comes to us. The world is us and we are the world and all the myriad dharmas. Profound.

Gassho,

Ryoku

ST/LAH

[Shonin Risa Bear]

I've said it before in this forum, but I really like the way he explains things.

Yes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-Z1WoFXkk

gassho
doyu sat today/LAH

[Getchi]

If i were to summarize this chapter in a couple of sentences, it is this: If you impose on the world how you want it to be, expect it to always bend to your will, resist when it does not go as you wish or meet your expectations, you suffer. When you allow the world to be the world, drop the demands and judgments, dropping the resistance and separation between your and things, flowing along as the flowing along of life, no separation of oneself and outside conditions ... one is free. We stop imposing ourself on life, and expecting it to bend to our will, and instead merge and become one (quite literally) with conditions as they are.


Gassho, J

STLah

Thankyou for this Jundo :gassho:

I have noticed that recently Ive had a lot less to say. I collected my wife from Hospital 3 days ago, as I have done many times before. It takes about 14hours because we do not have a car yet (will have one soon). Before I was a mess doing this - fretting about how we will afford it, what it is doing to my wifes health, blaming the stupid mechanic for not just picking up all the problems the first time, the neighbour for music playing while my wife needs to rest, the bus company for not having an easier timetable, my family for offering NO assistance(in any form at all)...

It is that easy to be seperated from teh World as detailed in this chapter.

This time, I simply reminded myself it was Ango time, and i am allowed to breathe, let go of the thinking and simply exist.

I think this is the best Ive felt in years. Flowing through my own thoughts about the way things "should" be (because I know better, obviously lol) into an acceptance of how things are and then a kind of peace, knowing I couldnt change all these things anyway.


Thats just my reflection thoguh.

Gassho
Geoff.

SatToday
LaH.

[pinecone]

Good evening everyone,

Deep bows to our teachers across space and time who so kindly place this matter before us.

I've not posted here before so must just say that it is a privilege to be here and to read people's heart-felt responses and experiences.

I suppose that my entire life is ample enough demonstration to me that I make myself and others unhappy if I strive to make circumstances fit my desire. Holding the Precepts in mind, I reflect that in fact I ''kill'' both myself and others when I attempt to 'fix' the dynamic, relational openness of reality (circumstances) into something static (my desire).

Work is a good place for me to see this in daily practice. I work in what many people might consider to be a fairly challenging environment. If I expect it not to be like this I simply cause myself frustration and anxiety and impede my ability to respond to others in a spontaneously compassionate way.

Gassho

m

Sat

[Jundo]

Thankyou for this Jundo :gassho:

I have noticed that recently Ive had a lot less to say. I collected my wife from Hospital 3 days ago, as I have done many times before. It takes about 14hours because we do not have a car yet (will have one soon). Before I was a mess doing this - fretting about how we will afford it, what it is doing to my wifes health, blaming the stupid mechanic for not just picking up all the problems the first time, the neighbour for music playing while my wife needs to rest, the bus company for not having an easier timetable, my family for offering NO assistance(in any form at all)...

It is that easy to be seperated from teh World as detailed in this chapter.

This time, I simply reminded myself it was Ango time, and i am allowed to breathe, let go of the thinking and simply exist.

I think this is the best Ive felt in years. Flowing through my own thoughts about the way things "should" be (because I know better, obviously lol) into an acceptance of how things are and then a kind of peace, knowing I couldnt change all these things anyway.


Thats just my reflection thoguh.

Gassho
Geoff.

SatToday
LaH.

Still sitting for your wife and you, Getchi. Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

If i were to summarize this chapter in a couple of sentences, it is this: If you impose on the world how you want it to be, expect it to always bend to your will, resist when it does not go as you wish or meet your expectations, you suffer. When you allow the world to be the world, drop the demands and judgments, dropping the resistance and separation between your and things, flowing along as the flowing along of life, no separation of oneself and outside conditions ... one is free. We stop imposing ourself on life, and expecting it to bend to our will, and instead merge and become one (quite literally) with conditions as they are.

Thank you for this teaching. I found this a very helpful chapter helping to put things into perspective,

Examples ? While I don't want to harp on about Brexit for me its a prime example of me fighting the tide. Our main concern is our potential loss of healthcare in a non-deal scenario, I think we will be ok but cannot be 100% sure. Anxiety levels have been high since the Withdrawal Agreement was rejected earlier this year but matters have got worse in the last few months. So I follow developments or lack of them, get irate and angry at the news and worry some more. Last week the UK Health Minister announced that in the case of No Deal, the UK would only cover the first 6 months of healthcare (for UK citizens in the EU) and after that we'd be on our own. Effectively throwing all UK pensioners (that's old age and disability/health like my wife) under the bus. That's despite a reciprocal Treaty between France and the UK that goes way back beyond the UK joining the EU in fact 1958 !!! With a Deal our healthcare and pensions are covered for life. So again the blood pressure rises and I start to see red once more, knowing this and a pension freeze its just another way they will help finance No-Deal. I don't want this to sound like a political rant. I've got to the point where I don't care if the UK is in or out but the uncertainty of my wife's healthcare (and mine to agree as I'm fit and well) is a burden I carry everyday. I can't discuss it much with her as it usually triggers an angina attack, so I suffer in order that she does not. As I say I think we will be ok but nothing is certain, so this is my Dukkha and many of my friends here a in the same situation and face the same anguish, so much metta has been said on their behalf and for the politician creating the mess.

I know I should try and let this all go and see how things pan out but that's easier said than done, as I need to keep a watchful eye in case I need to take some action. And so I suffer and continue to struggle through Ango. Sorry for the long windedness but that's where I am.

Having said that my heart goes out to those less fortunate in under developed countries who have little no healthcare what so ever and start to think I am just being selfish..........................

Sat

[Shonin Risa Bear]

Much metta, Seishin. I will add you and all in your circumstances to the morning service dedications. _()_

gassho
doyu sat today

[Seishin]

Much metta, Seishin. I will add you and all in your circumstances to the morning service dedications. _()_

gassho
doyu sat today

Thank you Doyu but there are others more deserving.

Sat

[Shonin Risa Bear]

Aha, comparatives. I do it all the time myself ... Metta to anyone's worries is good practice as our hearts are under constant reconstruction to afford "room" for metta to all. _()_

(isn't there a Kannon smiley around here someplace?)

gassho
doyu sat today

[Seishin]

Aha, comparatives. I do it all the time myself ... Metta to anyone's worries is good practice as our hearts are under constant reconstruction to afford "room" for metta to all. _()_

(isn't there a Kannon smiley around here someplace?)

gassho
doyu sat today

Much truth in you words. Again many thanks.

Sat