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(Thank you for reminding me to add "it's just a mental secretion" to my little list of helpful Buddhist phrases, along with Jishin's "past and the future are real and alive only in the present." The Treeleaf App somehow inspired me to keep my own catalog of helpful sayings)
Gassho,
Sierra
SatTodayComment
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Hello All,
First, it's a pleasure to have this opportunity for discussions. I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster! I look forward to future discussions and deeper understandings.
Currently, I'm using the free portion of the book on Google Books (as I await the hard copy), so I don't have page numbers. But one thing that really strikes me is under the sub-heading "The Four Seals".
I found this passage particularly interesting, "When we let go of our conceptions, there is no other possible reality than what is right now; in that sense, what is right now ad here is absolute, it's undeniable. Not only that, this undeniable reality is at the same time the reality of life that is fundamentally connected to everything in the universe. This is undeniable reality."
What strikes me about this is that this present undeniable reality is a consequence of chance/accident. Things happen, and we are constantly on an impermanent trajectory of chance happenings. In other words, I see the two realities as a false dichotomy. Could this be the karmic law, and right understanding (eight-fold path) at work as we sit?
Another interesting idea is the concept of time. Uchiyama writes of the past and future being alive in the present. I would just like to point out that there is a lot of Western thinking, particularly in Actor-Network Theory that are saying similar things. For instance when you observe a stop sign, it is not just a sign, and you are not only coming to a complete stop (hopefully), but you are also activating the "network" that made that sign possible, i.e., the people who manufactured it and hung it, the cultural conventions towards red and traffic, and future meanings the sign might evolve towards depending if people follow it or not. This is pretty dense stuff, but I only mention it to offer a perspective of the oneness of everything, or the "network" which Jundo mentions, that are not only spread out across the cosmos, but also contained within at the moment of sitting. i.e., in the present moment we are not only one with the universe, but also contain the universe's previous incarnations within. ...Hope this doesn't come off new-agey.
Thanks all for any comments and ideas!
Gassho,
John
SatTodayGassho,
John
sattoday
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Hello everybody,
What a wonderful book, I have read this one during a retreat and look forward to reading it again! I agree that the idea of thought as a secretion like sweat is a useful metaphor. It helps me to remember that my thoughts are not permanent and do not need to be acted upon.
Gassho,
Dillon
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Have read the first chapter and everyone's post. Have nothing to add but did learn from the discussions I think I need to read it again and as Jundo suggest above, just sit. I also gravitated to Risho's summary to practice. Hopefully I too will ripen.
Gassho
Randy
sattodayComment
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Beautiiful book, I kept finding myself wanting to read more as I worked my way through.
I have nothing to add apart from the idea of localised gravity effects, ie; the Mass of the Earth includes our own, and as matter can neither be create nor destroyed (only reconfigure from one configuration to the next) then from a certain perspective we are indistinguishable from every other living thing on this planet, and the planet Earth itself. I am you, you are me and we are all each other.
Always makes me feel a little happier
Gassho,
Geoff.
SatToday.Nothing to do? Why not Sit?
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Excellent read! I enjoyed the first chapter very much.This is the present reality of life. It is the reality of that which can not be grasped,
the reality about which nothing can be said. This very ungraspability is what is absolutely real
about things.
Thank you all for the comments.
Now I'll have to hold it off until the paperback arrives
in a couple of weeks or so.
Gassho,
Sergey
sat-todayKaidō (皆道) Every Way
Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
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I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.Comment
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Thank you for the opportunity to read this book together with you all. It's a little bit blurry for me from time to time. But I'll sort it out.
Gassho
GenkiComment
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Nothing to do? Why not Sit?
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It's awesome when others share the same experience =) Although I still talk my husband's ear off, he gets tired of it lol!! Especially in the mornings, or when he is watching tv.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat todayComment
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Hello Adam,Hi Willow,
I didn't read Uchiyama Roshi's writing as being about an absolute truth. I took to be more like Aristotle's accident/essence distinction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_(philosophy)) in the context of a larger context. So the particulars of our life are accidental/contingent but the four seals point to undeniable/necessary parts of our lives. They are kind of absolutes but not in an unmoved mover or first principle kind of way. Its more like when one take a close look at our world, our lives, the lives of others most people can see these properties (3 marks of existence/ 3 seals.) They appear to be enduring properties of living things.
As for big jiko. I just took that for Being being Being In all seriousness, the world is kind of a busy place with lots of comings and goings as well periods and places of quite and stillness. They are all part of larger happening that is the cosmos. Either way, I think these ideas are there to help guide (inform) our lives rather than be a kind of revelation of the truth. So they are more the support for a creeping vine rather than the answer to a question.
At least those are the mental secretions I've had when thinking about and reading some of the posts. What do you think?
Gassho
Sat today
Adam
thanks for that - I feel what you suggest is a clearer reading. Uchiyama Roshi's writing is about truth rather than 'absolute truth' in a first principle kind of way. I guess there is an 'absolute' in there in the sense that reality has 'an absolute or undeniable nature'. I prefer the term undeniable because it has a more human ring about it.
Regarding philosophy - or philosophizing - despite not aiming -or wanting - to throw his life into 'a philosophical pursuit of the truth' - as with Dogen and many
of our contemporary writers on Zen - the questioning is there between the lines. I feel Philosophy can also be a practice of the heart as well as the mind and can assist us as long as we are mindful of not getting too tied up with words.
I think it's a shame if we become over conscious of our own stumbling attempts because eventually words of wisdom are surely built upon this? It may have taken Uchiyama forty years before he felt confident to set his thoughts down - but I'm sure during that time he thought deeply. explored, studied, and discussed with others.
Anyway - enough words - sitting is of course of the essence.
Gassho
Willow
sat todayComment
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First off I'd like to thank everyone for this accidental happenstance where we’re all reading and talking about this wonderful book. This is my first post, so please be gentle. This is my first reading of this book, so I appreciate the discussion on its interpretation. This is a bit of a dense book in my humble opinion.
It seems to me this chapter is a description of The Four Great Seals and their relevance to our life and practice (perhaps the same thing). Can we think of the seals as being Soto Zen’s condensation of the Four Noble Truths?
I also find the concepts of “accidental” vs “undeniable” reality and the interplay of this with the notion of two selfs (ego vs. jiko?), as well as the use of pronouns to seemingly switch between these two selfs, both fascinating and perplexing. Who is the “I” and “me” in the sentence: “when I took my first breath, my world was born with me.”? Similarly, at one point we read, “ If you and I are sitting together, you may think that we are looking at the same cup in front of us, but it’s not true. You look at it from your angle and from your perspective and I view it from mine. Later we read,” image that you and I are sitting together talking. In talking to you, I’m not talking to some person who is other than myself. At first I wondered at how we we can have two separate perspectives if we are really the same self. How can we be both two egos with two separate, accidental, realities and yet be the same. Then I thought, “aha!” Perhaps that is the point. We are but different facets of the same self.
Finally, I appreciate the focus on how our practice is for life. It is beautifully put to describe a prime point of this practice being to “wake up this self that is inclusive of everything.” Comparing zazen to prayer is poignant to me, coming from a Catholic background. I can only hope that my practice will lead to a wee bit of ripeness!
One question I have. The Mahayana perspective is described as : “By accepting and properly understanding the true nature of both accidental and undeniable realities, and by living in accord with this understanding, the matter of living and dying will cease to be such a terrible problem.” Does this understanding boil down to the third undeniable reality? If there is nothing to hold to anyway (including the salty water bag of anxiety that is you) why worry so much about living and dying?
Happy mental secretions!
JasonComment
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