3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

[Jundo]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

If "zazen itself is enlightenment" then where is it when we climb off the cushion? During the moments we are "present" throughout the day and lost when we are "lost in thought"?
Jenny

Hi Jenny,

There is "Zazen" when we are sitting cross-legged on the cushion, "Zazen" that is off the cushion, "Zazen" that is all of life with nothing omitted.

There is "Zazen" when we are "present" and "Zazen" when we are completely "lost in thought".

All is enlightenment itself. There is nothing that is not "Zazen".

Nor is being "lost in thought" somehow "better" than being "present" ... being present cannot be "lost".

Does that sound strange?

But that being said, we crawl over to the cushion and cross the legs day after day, and return again and again to a "presence" that is not "lost in thought".

Gassho, Jundo

[John]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

I think it's good to keep trying and putting forth effort, just important to realize that the effort itself is part of the destination. We're working hard at being who we are right now.

I agree with you Gregor. It's just that there's a lot of years of conditioning that have made the idea of putting a lot of effort into something without getting any 'result' seem very foreign to mine and possibly most of our natures. Maybe that's why there's a temptation to add some kind of stages or levels to Buddhist practice as teachers like Daido Loori do,

Gassho,
John

[Eika]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

I think it's good to keep trying and putting forth effort, just important to realize that the effort itself is part of the destination. We're working hard at being who we are right now.

I agree with you Gregor. It's just that there's a lot of years of conditioning that have made the idea of putting a lot of effort into something without getting any 'result' seem very foreign to mine and possibly most of our natures. Maybe that's why there's a temptation to add some kind of stages or levels to Buddhist practice as teachers like Daido Loori do,

Gassho,
John

I agree, John and Greg. It is nice to have levels of training because they are comforting and encouraging and give us a way to measure "progress". The problem is that they are often false measures of our abilities/insights. After studying with my college piano teacher for about 6 years he once said, "Bill, when you reach a certain level of playing you need to say 'f*%k what my teacher wants, I going to play things my way.'" What I took from this is that it is a natural part of our development as a student to look to the teacher for encouragement and validation, but as a grown man, it is important to be my own person when it comes to playing. The same may be true in Zen. It is OK to receive validation from the teacher, but we should not require it. If we do, it would seem that we are seeking enlightenment outside of our reality. That being said, I know from personal experience that students respond well to and often need an occasional pat on the back.

I also really liked the diagrams. I'm a visual learner and they helped me create a helpful image of how to do zazen that wouldn't turn into a narrative discussion in my head during my actual zazen. Tony was right, this book is a confidence booster.

This is one of the best books about Zen practice I have read in long time. Kudos to those who recommended/chose it for the book club.

Bill

[Gregor]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

John,

I'm right there with you. It's very hard for me to let go of this feeling that I am just fine the way I am, I strive towards self improvement in many ways. However, I am learning that to a certain amount It's better for my practice to let go. It's also easier for me to follow the eightfold path if I stop trying to clench the idea of it so tightly and just be myself in my natural good meaning way.

Bill,

You had some pretty wise stuff to say, I love that quote about what your teacher told you. I think practicing music is such a great example we can take out into our lives and Buddhist practice.

it really is just about the best dharma book I've ever read too.

[Jundo]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

John,

I'm right there with you. It's very hard for me to let go of this feeling that I am just fine the way I am, I strive towards self improvement in many ways.

We have to remember that "not seeking" and "not attaining" does not mean that there is nothing to find or attain. That is why we are engaged in "non-attaining".

The fact that there is absolutely "nothing in need of change" does NOT mean at all that there is "nothing is need of change".

That we give up all effort at changing does not mean that nothing will change about us. We can even say that it is "self-improvement" by the very fact that we can realize the true nature of "self" and drop all idea of its "improvement". I am, I think, a better human being than I was before I began this whole Buddhism thing many years ago.

You are fine the way you are, whether Practicing Buddhism or not ...
... And you are absolutely not fine the way you are before Buddhist Practice.

That's how this game works.

Gassho, Jundo

[Janice]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

I read a story that in India if you put out a big, heavy jar of nuts that has a narrow opening, a monkey will reach inside to grab the nuts. But the monkey will get stuck because it won’t release its grip to free its hand from the jar.

Waking up involves relaxing mental grasping so we can be with everything. Being empty of our preconceived ideas seems almost impossible for me to comprehend. But releasing the grip of preconceived thoughts is a softer notion that works for me. I can cultivate space in my mind to change my perceptions and understanding.

I can be a bit of a dreamer at times. Looking back on some experiences, I can see how I separated myself from others and how my actions were motivated from the self. And I recognize the harm that resulted. Practicing awareness helps me question that “me” concept more frequently. I can observe the thoughts, memories and day dreams and see them as temporary phenomena. It’s mental weather. Clouds appear. Resistance appears or desire appears. Mental secretions come and go resulting from the conditioning John mentioned.

But there is freedom in the sense that there’s room for all that we are. There is expansiveness in an open mind of not knowing and finding out through experience.

Intention, discernment and actions are linked in multiple directions. The more our speech and behaviors exhibit selfishness or craving, the more we fuel attachment-oriented habits of mind. The more we can bring our awareness and insight to our actions, the more we refine that interconnection and open up possibilities to live fully as we are with what we encounter.

Regards,

Janice

[Eika]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

I can be a bit of a dreamer at times. Looking back on some experiences, I can see how I separated myself from others and how my actions were motivated from the self. And I recognize the harm that resulted. Practicing awareness helps me question that “me” concept more frequently. I can observe the thoughts, memories and day dreams and see them as temporary phenomena. It’s mental weather. Clouds appear. Resistance appears or desire appears. Mental secretions come and go resulting from the conditioning John mentioned.

Thanks for this Janice. It describes my interaction with the world pretty well too. I have found shikantaza to be a much more effective antidote to this tendency than the other types of meditation I have tried (which I will admit is not that many). To learn to let go and simply be is good medicine--and it goes down smooth too.

Bill

[lindabeekeeper]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

Hi all, Sorry I'm a bit late with this. One of the things that caught my attention was Note 32 in which Sawaki explains wakugokku or "grasping onto ignorance" by the teaching "Thoughts are fantasies, acts are real, and the results come back to haunt us." While I like this quote, I can't help wondering if acts can be driven by anything other than fantasies. Is this where prajna comes in? i.e. Prajna drives skillful acts which create results that come back to bless us (or all beings).????

Gassho,

Linda

[Janice]

Re: 3/28 - Waking Up to Life p. 52

I guess there are a few ways of reading Sawaki's statement that 'Thoughts are fantasies, acts are real, and the results come back to haunt us'

When I went back and read the footnote outside of the context of Uchiyama's discussion on p. 58, I thought Sawaki meant that thoughts are just thoughts, especially if they are not grasped. On the other hand, you cannot avoid the consequences of your actions. You can't undo an action once it's taken.

Then I went back to p. 58 and read Uchiyama "...once we think of something we hate or dislike, we assume again that the simple fact of thinking we hate it is the truth. Thinking that this idea is the truth so we ought to follow it, we chase after it until our whole world turns to anger." Earlier in that paragraph Uchiyama refers to us "plunging our heads to far into our thoughts."

There is a way to put some distance between the thoughts and actions: notice we are angry, smile and ask ourselves 'is any other way of responding' (other than our first inclination). If we can do this, we've opened ourselves up to a broader perspective. We've questioned "is this necessarily so." Then we don't identify too tightly with the thought.

Maybe the prajna is in the letting go and acting out of the universal self then. We need the wisdom to make choices that are appropriate.

Also the inner self of thoughts and emotions is connected to the outer self through which we interact with others. So even though we may not perceive the karmic effect, what we give our energy to inside affects the practice of how we live.