LIVING by VOW: The Meal Chants - PP 87 to 98 (thru Verse Upon Hearing Meal Signal)

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

As I set of to visit Treeleafers on my American travels, the Book Club will be in the good hands of Shugen. This is also fitting, as he is our guide in the Oryoki Circle here at Treeleaf:

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?109-Oryoki-Practice-Circle

Shugen will take the rest of the Chapter in a few pieces, over the next few weeks.

And speaking of pieces, today's section again speaks of the vital Mahayana Buddhist experience of the whole thoroughly in each of the pieces of life, and each of the pieces a whole universe. Every moment and action is all moments, and and all moments and all time is thoroughly contained in each moment.

It is very important that, through this Practice, one learns to experience so. It brings all the broken pieces of the world, although still sadly sometimes broken, into wholeness and completion.

Can you, and have you got better at, finding this in all your actions and moments in life? Oryoki is one way to express all our actions, from changing a tire to a baby diaper.

The last section honors the historical Buddha, and the four great places of his life that I was honored to visit as a pilgrim last winter. Certainly, easier for me to visit by plane and train than pilgrims of old.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14868-Jundo-s-India-Diary-A-Month-of-Travels-Pilgrimage/page3&highlight=india+jundo+visit+train

Anyway, without further ado, I turn things over to Shugen. Perhaps he will add some words here.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Shugen]

Hello all,

What a wonderful description of broken - not broken life!

I will be road tripping over the weekend to meet Jundo and some of our other Sangha mates so will post again early next week.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday


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[Meitou]

Just wondering if anyone could suggest some further reading on Oryoki as I feel I need some background to this chapter. I have this book by Tony Duff https://www.amazon.com/Oryoki-Chant-.../dp/9937903106 already, has anyone read it and if so how do you rate it? Thank you everyone.

Gassho
Frankie

satwithyoualltoday/lah.

[Tairin]

Whoa! I am going to need to read this section again. Some of it is pretty clear like the hand and fingers description others not so much. I think part of my stumbling block is that dharma clearly has a more expansive meaning than what I've been using. Anyone else find this section a challenge?

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Meitou]

Whoa! I am going to need to read this section again. Some of it is pretty clear like the hand and fingers description others not so much. I think part of my stumbling block is that dharma clearly has a more expansive meaning than what I've been using. Anyone else find this section a challenge?

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

Yes Warren! I will definitely need to re-read this chapter, at least a couple of times. Having said that, while I'm reminding myself of the doctrinal side of some of what is being discussed, eg, the three bodies of the Buddha and the concept of the gift, the giving and the receiver, which are Big Subjects by themselves- I'm trying to understand and keep in mind the overall meaning and purpose of Oryoki, which as I see it is a gateway to understanding and celebrating interdependence, even by the act of sharing, as well as an embodiment of the gift of gratitude.
A while back I watched a few videos on You Tube of various Oryoki ceremonies, but to be honest I was more moved by Jundo and our own Sangha members sharing the Oryoki practice in Hobart yesterday - it really brought home to me that sense of what the practice means in terms of gratitude, sharing, serving each other with pleasure and care and understanding how we are all connected and dependent upon each other. I thought it also demonstrated how something with so much form can also be intimate, relaxed and informal, amongst people who care deeply about what they are doing. I loved it!

Gassho
Frankie,

satwithyoualltoday.

[Shugen]

HI Frankie,

I am not familiar with the book that you mentioned. I put it on my list. As to other resources, I have not found much. Even the "official" version from Soto-Shu is vague and not well written. I will update if I come across anything else.

I am glad that you enjoyed our version of Oryoki in Hobart. It may not have been a perfectly choreographed dance but the intent was exactly what it should have been. As Shingen has mentioned on other threads, intent is key.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday

[Joyo]

Each chapter in this book is helping me with my practice. It's one of those books to be read over and over again.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

[Meitou]

HI Frankie,

I am not familiar with the book that you mentioned. I put it on my list. As to other resources, I have not found much. Even the "official" version from Soto-Shu is vague and not well written. I will update if I come across anything else.

I am glad that you enjoyed our version of Oryoki in Hobart. It may not have been a perfectly choreographed dance but the intent was exactly what it should have been. As Shingen has mentioned on other threads, intent is key.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday

It's quite strange because this book is about Oryoki as it was introduced to his students by the Tibetan master Chogyam Trungpa, so the liturgy ( long and lots of it) comes from the Tibetan tradition. The author Tony Duff does say at the beginning that he was reluctant to write the book because he felt that the instructions for Oryoki should be transmitted orally as they always have been. I wonder if this is why there is a dearth of literature about the practice?
Shugen, your intent shone

Gassho
Frankie

satwithyoualltoday/lah

[Shugen]

I have to say I have no experience with the Tibetan version. And, I'll admit it's easier to show than it is to tell but I'm sure that the monks in the monastery took notes for reference. Some of them probably even created "cheat sheets". [emoji3]

An idea for Jundo's next book?

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday/LAH


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[Jundo]

It's quite strange because this book is about Oryoki as it was introduced to his students by the Tibetan master Chogyam Trungpa, so the liturgy ( long and lots of it) comes from the Tibetan tradition. The author Tony Duff does say at the beginning that he was reluctant to write the book because he felt that the instructions for Oryoki should be transmitted orally as they always have been. I wonder if this is why there is a dearth of literature about the practice?
Shugen, your intent shone

Gassho
Frankie

satwithyoualltoday/lah

Trungpa was a friend of Shunryu Suzuki, and borrowed some Japanese Soto Practices into his Shambhala Tradition. This is one case.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Eishuu]

This chapter was my first taste of this book - wow, really mind blowing. Will probably need to read it several times. The bit that really left me with a question was the bit about desire: "When we eat, we should be happy. This happiness is the enjoyment of dharma. When we receive or eat a meal, we shouldn't grasp the taste. Usually when we eat, we encounter our food with our desires. These desires are the cause of delusion or samsara. The Buddha and Dogen Zenji teach us to become free from desires caused by objects. ...Our joy when we receive food is not the fulfillment of our desire. It is the joy of dharma and zazen".

I can see that food and eating is a particularly useful way to work with desire.

I have just come off a 21 month strict diet - low carb, dairy/gluten/soy/caffeine/alcohol/sugar-free, pretty bland. Now I have started eating a more varied diet in the last few days - strawberries, vegan cheesecake, beans - and drinking green tea again, I am noticing a significant rise in craving and desire around food where there was little before. A lot of this seems to be physiological to some extent. I saw a great documentary on sugar, in which they did a brain scan of someone eating a cake (I think it was a cake) and also looking at a cake. The same parts of the brain lit up - it seems both pleasure and anticipated pleasure have the same affect on the brain which is why the anticipation and desire makes us want to eat the cake (I'm now careful to put the chocolate out of sight of I don't want to eat it!).

So my question is what to do with this desire around food? How do I not 'grasp the taste'? Do I just sit with it and notice but not feed it somehow? I quite enoy the anticipation of eating strawberries or cheesecake, it's seems like it's part of the enjoyment. Or is it about changing focus and attitude towards food and regarding it as 'reality itself' and maintaining awareness? I'm not talking about oryoki in particular but just eating my breakfast or a bowl of strawberries.

Also, on rereading this passage, I notice I feel a slight panic about the idea of giving up desire around food - will it taste as good? I think there's an attachment to the desire itself. Without desire will life be boring?

Thanks...I'd be really interested in any thoughts or advice.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today

[Shugen]

Hi Lucy,

I don't think we can completely give up our desires. Nor should we. I think it's more about being aware of them and not becoming "a slave to desire" so to speak. You see the chocolate cake, you feel the desire welling up, you notice it - maybe even enjoy it a little, and then take a mental step back. You don't have to immediately grab the fork and dig in. You can, but you don't have to. The point of practice is not to turn us into unfeeling robots but to give us a little more control over our actions. Now, some days, it's not going to work out so well, before you know it, the cake will be half gone. That's okay too. No point in feeling guilty, just be aware, and move on. Food and desire can be very problematic for some, that's what makes this so powerful.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday


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[Tairin]

You see the chocolate cake, you feel the desire welling up, you notice it - maybe even enjoy it a little, and then take a mental step back. You don't have to immediately grab the fork and dig in. You can, but you don't have to. The point of practice is not to turn us into unfeeling robots but to give us a little more control over our actions. Now, some days, it's not going to work out so well, before you know it, the cake will be half gone. That's okay too. No point in feeling guilty, just be aware, and move on. Food and desire can be very problematic for some, that's what makes this so powerful.

The point about chocolate cake is a good one. Like just about everyone I have a weakness for chocolate cake. Desire! Even though I know better there is always that desire to have the biggest piece (or at least not the smallest one). Then after getting the cake, rather than savouring and enjoying each mouthful, it is mindlessly shoveled in. Gone in no time. If I am lucky I get another piece and same thing happens.

I have tried (and many times failed) to pause as I take a mouthful of any food and appreciate it. It may not even be food I enjoy but there was effort made to plant it, grow it, transport it, purchase it, prepare it, serve it. Seems like the least I should do is pause to enjoy and marvel at the flavours, the textures, the aromas. I should also remember to pause and be thankful for all the sentient beings that contributed to that mouthful.

Last Ango I took up the practice of reciting the Meal Gatha (http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ll=1#post47586) before eating lunch and then spend the lunch time contemplating everything past and present that contributed to the food I was consuming. It was very enlightening to consider the web of inter-dependencies that contribute to a meal.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Meishin]

we see the chocolate cake
neurons fire
an explosion of dopamine

we take one bite
fewer action potentials
much less dopamine

the second bite of chocolate cake
a subtle feeling of nausea
which we ignore

and we eat the rest of the cake
out of habit.

Gassho
Meishin
sat today

[Michael Joseph]

Hi Lucy,

I don't think we can completely give up our desires. Nor should we. I think it's more about being aware of them and not becoming "a slave to desire" so to speak. You see the chocolate cake, you feel the desire welling up, you notice it - maybe even enjoy it a little, and then take a mental step back. You don't have to immediately grab the fork and dig in. You can, but you don't have to. The point of practice is not to turn us into unfeeling robots but to give us a little more control over our actions. Now, some days, it's not going to work out so well, before you know it, the cake will be half gone. That's okay too. No point in feeling guilty, just be aware, and move on. Food and desire can be very problematic for some, that's what makes this so powerful.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday


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Hey Shugen,

I've found myself bogged down in this chapter because I do have a problem with desire and food. Ever since I quit drinking in January, I have been using food as a kind of stress reliever/source of pleasure. In fact, throughout my life, food has been a source of both desire and aversion. It's fair to say that food has been the focus of a lot of my emotional problems--not so much the cause as the means of escape (if this makes sense). This chapter has forced me to confront a significant effect of this problem: I refuse to acknowledge the sacred function of food as both sustenance for my life (and life in general) and means by which I am undeniably connected with other beings. That my life depends on the life (and death) of other beings is profoundly humbling, and to realize this insight demands that I transform utterly my relationship with food. Writing this, I feel a sense of shame that needs to be understood in terms of atonement instead of self-judgment. To see food as it is, as life, demands a reevaluation; I need to learn to treat food with honor, as Okumura implies, instead of treating it as an instrument of my own self-satisfaction.

Gassho,

Michael

Sat today