BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 52

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40119

    #31
    Originally posted by Jakuden


    I could say I do understand, but I would probably be either wrong or lying. Something tells me there aren't going to be any Koans about which I will be able to say "Oh, I so totally understand that!!"

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday
    On reason I do use the music analogy often is that it really is something similar. Sometimes we don't "get" Jazz or country music or whatever you first don't "get" ... but then suddenly we get it in the bones!

    Or it is like this (or those darn 3-D pictures they printed in the newspapers for awhile ... took me forever to see, then one day there it was, jumping right off the page!) ... Seeing this, and getting it in ones bones can be a bit tricky. One should not really understand just intellectually, although 'tis hard to really sink in and truly see (that is one reason for all this Sitting and Practice). And once seen, it is known as having always been there. In this way, piercing ths puzzle is very much like the old optical illusion of the young lady and the old crone. Can you see both? (Post here if you can't, and I will give a clue) ...



    Is it an old lady? Is it a young lady? Both at once? YES!! Yes, both are there and depends on being able to see things each way. As well, the open spaces and lines are a single whole ... and there is no drawing at all without both as one.

    So, in Zazen, we "open the hand of divisive thoughts" and realize this whole view.

    If one fails to see through the "little self" and encounter one's True Face Before Even One's Mother & Father Were Born as the "True Self/small self, True Nature, Dharmakhaya, Relative/Absolute, Mu, Emptiness, Shobogenzo, Big 'B' Buddha, Mirror Mind, Capital "M" Mind etc. " ... then one is simply missing one of the central points (perhaps THE Central Point among the many good points) of all Mahayana Buddhist Practice, including Zen Buddhism. One is simply coming to the "Non-Birthday Party" and leaving without eating any Non-Birthday Cake!

    The old adage that "Zen" is about "Becoming One With The Universe" is really not so far off the mark!

    What is more, I propose to you that this is really not so hard to see or understand (even for us with a modern, skeptical mind), although 'tis hard to really sink in and truly see (that is one reason for all this Sitting and Practice). And once seen, it is known as having always been there.

    Thus, for me ... a great skeptic, agnostic, "show me the evidence" guy who doubts UFO's, Big Foot and the Lock Ness Monster ... and who is skeptical of literal, mechanical rebirth as a rat or a ghost (just let what will be just be on that) ... I can still sink my teeth into this view of "Non-Birth", that we were never quite born ... thus we never quite die. It is easy to see and pierce (through Practice), it is easy to grasp intellectually too. My own "Kensho" moments are much like actually having seen the world inside out and rightside up, without self/other separation, the all encompassing interpenetration of all things, where the young lady now is witnessed clearly as the crone through and through, without a drop of separation ... neither displacing or replacing the other. Through this Zen Practice, the hard borders between "my self" and "all the rest" soften, and sometimes fully drop away. Now, with years of practice, I can pretty much access pierce the illusion any time when taking a moment to see ... a way of "I" and "non-I" at once.

    Simply put, it is easy to understand: If you are you ... but you are also simultaneously just the "universe" or (better said) the reality underlying everything ... then, when "you" die you don't really quite die so long as that "reality" is still going, keeping it real. Same for being "born".

    Yes, it is a bit hard to fully fathom. But also as simple as child's play.

    For you and me and the other folks are simply star dust, made of the same stuff as all the planets, trees and bees. We are like these individual finger puppets, stuck in their unique and separate identities ... who cannot see (without Practice) that they are each simultaneously also just the whole hand, and maybe even the little child behind it.



    (What the hand or child is up to, if anything at all? Well, that's a whole 'nother question. Whatever, best to just play along!)

    Basic Mahayana Buddhism, Zen Buddhism 101.

    As is written on the wooden block calling folks to Zazen, and chanted each night in about every Zen monastery anywhere ...

    Let me respectfully remind you
    Life and death are of supreme importance, the Great Matter.
    Time passes swiftly and opportunity is lost.
    Let us awaken ...
    Awaken!
    Do not squander this life.


    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    PS - If you would like more pontificating by me on this subject (and non-subject), here is an old thread ...



    Another traditional simile is that of "waves on the sea". A wave arises on the surface of the sea for a time, rolls along, and then disappears back into the sea. If that sea wave were to somehow become conscious and self reflective (like us), it might think "I am separate from the sea and all the other waves, and when I vanish I die." However, from another perspective, a wave is just the sea all along ... no wave apart from the water ... and the wave was never just the wave. The wave was also always the sea, just temporarily arising a certain way under local conditions. So, the wave would be partly right (it will vanish and die when it disappears) but also wrong (because it was the sea along, both before and after never anything else). Science seems to be saying much the same, that each of us is just the same matter and energy, atoms and waves and such as all the rest of the universe.
    PPS - While I was writing this, found these other incredible 3d images ...

    Last edited by Jundo; 05-27-2016, 03:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • Roland
      Member
      • Mar 2014
      • 232

      #32
      BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 52

      Sometimes, not very often, there is 'feeling like the well'. Hard to describe, but 'compassion' comes to mind.

      Gassho
      #SatToday

      Roland

      Comment

      • Toun
        Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 206

        #33
        I read through the koan a few times. It seems that when I try to pin it down with explanations and "word grasping"... the more deluded everything becomes. By sitting, we open ourselves up to the whole picture without any need for descriptions. Recognizing all the elements we drop the well, the moon, the water, the donkey and the reflection to then become aware of pure consciousness.

        Hmm...
        Just my thoughts running on and on...

        Gassho
        Sat2day
        Last edited by Toun; 05-27-2016, 10:01 PM. Reason: Typos

        Comment

        • Tairin
          Member
          • Feb 2016
          • 2801

          #34
          I appreciate all of the insights into this koan. Thank you.

          For me I keep coming back to something in the commentary after the reading

          ".... I think the brain is using the scientists in order to understand itself."
          What a unique and correct way of expressing this idea. It helped me with the "the well sees the donkey" part of the koan but more importantly it helps me better understand the "not one" and "not two". The donkey can't see his reflection without the well and the well can not reflect the image without the donkey. They are not separate (not two) but not one either.

          Gassho
          Warren
          sat today
          泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

          All of life is our temple

          Comment

          • Shurin
            Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 36

            #35
            I am trying to grasp this on a deeper level. So I guess I would identify as the donkey that can't even see the well yet.

            Gassho
            Shurin
            Sat today

            Comment

            • Meishin
              Member
              • May 2014
              • 806

              #36
              Who sees either the well or the donkey? Who?

              Gassho
              Meishin
              Sat today

              Comment

              • Jishin
                Member
                • Oct 2012
                • 4821

                #37
                BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 52

                Originally posted by Meishin
                Who sees either the well or the donkey? Who?
                Who sees the well and the donkey.






                [emoji1]

                Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
                Last edited by Jishin; 05-29-2016, 01:41 AM.

                Comment

                • Marco
                  Member
                  • May 2016
                  • 12

                  #38
                  Originally posted by awarren
                  I appreciate all of the insights into this koan. Thank you.

                  For me I keep coming back to something in the commentary after the reading



                  What a unique and correct way of expressing this idea. It helped me with the "the well sees the donkey" part of the koan but more importantly it helps me better understand the "not one" and "not two". The donkey can't see his reflection without the well and the well can not reflect the image without the donkey. They are not separate (not two) but not one either.

                  Gassho
                  Warren
                  sat today
                  Thank you Warren! Something about the way you worded your description made me say "ah ha!"

                  Marco
                  Gassho
                  Satoday

                  Comment

                  • TyZa
                    Member
                    • May 2016
                    • 126

                    #39
                    Everyone's responses have been great. I agree with Marco and Warren that Wick's commentary ".... I think the brain is using the scientists in order to understand itself." really helped me to get closer to understanding the well seeing the donkey. Currently, I am the donkey (no 80% about that). I'm ok with being the donkey for now. Really fascinating koan that I will have to keep thinking about.

                    Jishin that was hilarious and appropriate

                    Originally posted by Jishin
                    Who sees the well and the donkey.



                    Gassho,
                    Tyler

                    SatToday

                    Comment

                    • FaithMoon
                      Member
                      • Jul 2015
                      • 112

                      #40
                      With this koan, the "seeing" aspect has had the strongest resonance for me. As in connection, attention.
                      sat today!

                      Comment

                      • Onkai
                        Treeleaf Unsui
                        • Aug 2015
                        • 2999

                        #41


                        Gassho,
                        Onkai
                        SatToday
                        美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
                        恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

                        I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

                        Comment

                        • AlanLa
                          Member
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 1405

                          #42
                          According to my understanding of the dharmakaya (which means I am already off track), I am the moon and water, donkey and well. But according to Tozan's stages of zen practice, I am not even a donkey yet. Donkey-like events in my life have me pondering some fairly serious existential questions about who/what I am and where I am going, and I spent a large chunk of yesterday pondering these questions until I finally decided that I needed to ponder a more immediate existential crisis in my life, and that was to answer the question of what I was going to do all day besides sit on my ass (donkey) and ponder the great mystery that will reveal itself in due time anyway. So I cleaned the house, and it was good, so good that it was one of the best damn things I have done in a while. I actualized the cleaning products, and they actualized me, and the result was a great cycling of the cosmic dirty/clean wheel. Without the mess, there could have been no cleaning, and without cleaning there is no mess. In this silly analogy, my house is the dhamrakaya manifesting itself in myriad forms. BTW the house is about 80% clean, and when I find the well I will get some water to mop the floors to finish the other 20%. Maybe I will play some jazz while I am at it.
                          AL (Jigen) in:
                          Faith/Trust
                          Courage/Love
                          Awareness/Action!

                          I sat today

                          Comment

                          Working...