BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 27

[Oheso]

Like moving the deck chairs on a sinking ship?

Gassho, J

drowning, I think, Sensei

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=SgJxpr_8eOY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSgJxpr_8eOY

[MyoHo]

Iceberg? What iceberg? Oh, You mean that 'No-Iceberg' that just tore a hole the size of a skyscraper in the hull of our ship? It's not realy there you know.

Enkyo

[Oheso]

I was taught (in the context of art history) that as art has followed the arrow of time, each change came about by letting something go and grasping something new. like swinging from branch to branch in the jungle, or like trapeze acrobats, from one to the next. if one was to move (as life certainly seems to insist upon), -evolve, progress or even go retrograde, something had to be let go of in order to grasp something else, in order to move, as compelled by time. is this a correct way of thinking? shikantaza feels like a "dynamic stillness", setting in place some radical changes by letting go of delusion and grasping enlightenment, but also by stopping absolutely. is this related uji, time-being?


I feel I grasp my desires pretty darn tightly (or vice-versa) and often at arm's-length, which usually means freezing in place, -dead in the water, so to speak. maybe loosening (loosing?) my grip a bit would make me happier. at least, like Hsiang-yen's hanging man, it would get me off this branch = artistic accomplishment, wisdom, spiritual contentment, etc.-

I think a certain peace and freedom would almost certainly ensue.

I think Daido is right - it would feel a lot like shikantaza.



gassho,

-Robert

[Jinyo]

Well - to regain my health would be amazing. But I hold this thought lightly because I have accepted that it's most unlikely to
happen. I also accept that loss of health happens to everyone eventually so there's no point in being too attached to the notion
of perfect health.

Would re-gaining good health make me happier - more content. No - I don't think so. The way I see my situation is that the loss
was also a gain. I've been blessed with the space to lead a contemplative life - I've been able to focus on my writing and I've discovered
new creativity as an artist.

I would add though - I can't make universal statements from whatever I'm learning/experiencing through Zen. I see people in tragic circumstances
and would never want to counsel what constitutes loss/gain in another person's life.

Gassho

Willow

[Jundo]

I was taught (in the context of art history) that as art has followed the arrow of time, each change came about by letting something go and grasping something new. like swinging from branch to branch in the jungle, or like trapeze acrobats, from one to the next. if one was to move (as life certainly seems to insist upon), -evolve, progress or even go retrograde, something had to be let go of in order to grasp something else, in order to move, as compelled by time. is this a correct way of thinking? shikantaza feels like a "dynamic stillness", setting in place some radical changes by letting go of delusion and grasping enlightenment, but also by stopping absolutely. is this like uji, time-being? .

...

gassho,

-Robert

I believe that Zen allows us a "Buddha-Cake and Eat It Too" way of experiencing reality. I think that a good thing because I like to see progress in science and society (fixing some of the world's problems), in our personal lives (fixing where we can our personal problems, harmful habits and weaknesses), not to mention enjoying change and creativity in art ...

... while at the same instant, hand in hand, experiencing "no place in need of going, nothing to fix" ... a satisfaction of all hunger before that cake is even eaten! All At Once, As One. We can experience "dynamic stillness" as both "still movement" or "moving stillness". Life's creativity and fertility is also "nothing to change". Every single work of art is a universe unto itself, with no before or after.

Even Buddhism has evolved through the centuries, not the same in many forms now as 500 years ago, nor both from 2500 years ago. Yet, the timeless at its heart is beyond all change and time.

There is no change, nothing to fix ... yet, in the morning we roll the blinds up, in the evening roll them down.

I see people in tragic circumstances and would never want to counsel what constitutes loss/gain in another person's life.

Gassho

Willow

This is so. I have a friend in a wheelchair who counsels me that, once he got over the adjustment physically and emotionally, it opened new vistas to him and, in some ways, made his life better. For others, however, who might be in truly horrible situations, we cannot say that "everything in the world has a silver lining", because perhaps not everything does.

As human beings and Buddhists, all we can do is keep trying to fix what we can of the world's problems, and accept what we cannot. That is grandmother's wisdom.

But at the same time, as Buddhists, we have one more extra-ordinary lesson to convey: That there is a view encompassing yet fully transcending loss and gain, up or down, sitting or standing, anyone to suffer and anything to be suffered. Zazen sits and is sat in order to taste such.

Gassho, J

[Oheso]

doumo arigatou gozaimasu, Sensei

[Kokuu]

These are excellent questions as gain and loss are experienced by us all, and rarely live up to expectations.

This discussion to some extent mirrors one we are currently having on a chronic illness forum I am part of. One woman, unable to bear the thought of living without recovering her health made the decision to either get better or kill herself. A friend of hers challenged her, instead, to see if she could spend six months trying to live with the idea of happiness without recovery. As you can imagine, once she let go of the idea of gain and loss, she felt happier and, incidentally, her health improved too. Many of us there admitted to going through a similar process at some point. Even with the improved health, though, it was the acceptance that was generally viewed as the greatest breakthrough.

This year I have experienced much loss through a relationship breakdown and worsening health. Through that there have also been gains. Is there a balance? No. Yet to throw one part away would be to toss the whole book into the fire.

Gassho
Andy

[Myoku]

Hello,
The interpretation of Sishin Wick means a lot to me; I felt he wrote it just for me. Always trying to gain something here, always looking for applause on what I do. More or less. Also I cling a lot to health, which creates some trouble when you get older What would really make me happy would be to be free from needing anything to be happy. I guess that pretty much nails it, thank you everyone for contributing,
Gassho
Myoku

[AlanLa]

To borrow very loosely from physics (and elsewhere), gain/loss can neither be created nor destroyed, just shifted around like deck chairs on a sailing (not sinking) ship. Thanks to my practice, I find the more I lose the more I gain. The unexpectedness of it all, those ever new deck chair arrangements as life sails on into ever new waters, is what keeps me going. The change in scenery is neither gain nor loss; it is just life.

[Risho]

- What, if you gained or lost it in your life today, would make you happy? Please describe that desire. Do you feel yourself a prisoner of that desire, or do you clutch it (and let it clutch you) lightly?

Well 2 things came to mind, neither one was too serious: 1. my hair: I lost it in my mid-twenties, and 2. our cable went out today. In both cases, I haven't clutched either one. I have to admit I do care more about the cable than my hair Also, another is youth i guess related to my hair in a way. Last night at dinner, a bunch of teens were celebrating a birthday, and for a moment I felt a little nag of youth lost in my life. I remembered that time in my life fondly. but then I remembered how much I love my life now as well. It's funny though how thoughts can lead to that desire and grasping.

I think I mostly grasp at outcomes.. for example, if tasks on the weekend don't go as smoothly as I'd like; I did my taxes today, and I hate doing taxes. Well I hate doing my taxes when I let the thought of not wanting to do them take control. But by dropping that, it turned out to be fun. Another big one is in traffic when someone is driving too slow or cuts me off. I catch myself in these situations and just let the thoughts drop away. I try to remain patient. Or at work, when programming is not working out as well as I want it. Again, opening to that, and finding out why is actually a big source of fun.

- Is there a certain peace and freedom that might come to you by dropping that need for gain or loss? There is a big feeling of relief that comes with just dropping the wants. It allows you to just live and adjust with what's actually happening. Grasping at things, specific outcomes or trying to hold onto the past makes me feel like the life is being choked out of me. The wonder of life is the change. It's actually pretty awesome that I'm different now than I was before, from my teens. That's a miracle, that change, that growth.

- Is it possible to be all of the above at once ... seeking loss or gain, while free of loss and gain? What would that feel like? yes it's absolutely possible. I've felt it at times and it's wonderful. It feels like being a child in some ways.. wondrous and curious at what will happen in life without worrying if something doesn't happen exactly to plan. Nothing ever happens exactly as planned.

Gassho,

Risho

[galen]

Is there really such a thing as gain or loss, ultimately? What is there to gain, and what is there to lose, relatively?

Balancing seems to be in seeking, when what is there to seek?


Gassho

[Jundo]

Is there really such a thing as gain or loss, ultimately? What is there to gain, and what is there to lose, relatively?

Balancing seems to be in seeking, when what is there to seek?


Gassho

Ultimately, nothing to gain or lose perhaps ... but so much to gain and lose. On this Buddhist Path, we gain so much, and can lose so much by wrong choices.

Nothing to seek perhaps ... but so much to find.

I posted an old "Sisyphus" essay on another thread today, and it might work here too. Don't slip and get rolled over! Anyway, nothing to lose by posting it again.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7902-Sisyphus

Gassho, J

[Shugen]

QUESTIONS:

- What, if you gained or lost it in your life today, would make you happy? Please describe that desire. Do you feel yourself a prisoner of that desire, or do you clutch it (and let it clutch you) lightly?

- Is there a certain peace and freedom that might come to you by dropping that need for gain or loss?

- Is it possible to be all of the above at once ... seeking loss or gain, while free of loss and gain? What would that feel like?

Since it's Monday, I would like to lose so much time at work and so little time at home. I feel I am missing "something". And yet, sometimes when I am home, I am thinking of work. Sometimes I am a prisoner, sometimes I am not. On good days, wherever I am, I remember to just be there. On bad days...



Shugen

[AlanLa]

Like most people, I suspect, I read this koan as opening the blind to light equals in some way enlightenment, and, conversely, the dark is representative of delusion. But my bedtime reading these days is Zen Questions these days, and last night Leighton reminded me that Uchiyama said that gain is delusion and loss is enlightenment. Ah, the light bulb above my head went dark on that, by which I mean I turned off the light and went to bed.

[galen]

These are excellent questions as gain and loss are experienced by us all, and rarely live up to expectations.

This discussion to some extent mirrors one we are currently having on a chronic illness forum I am part of. One woman, unable to bear the thought of living without recovering her health made the decision to either get better or kill herself. A friend of hers challenged her, instead, to see if she could spend six months trying to live with the idea of happiness without recovery. As you can imagine, once she let go of the idea of gain and loss, she felt happier and, incidentally, her health improved too. Many of us there admitted to going through a similar process at some point. Even with the improved health, though, it was the acceptance that was generally viewed as the greatest breakthrough.

This year I have experienced much loss through a relationship breakdown and worsening health. Through that there have also been gains. Is there a balance? No. Yet to throw one part away would be to toss the whole book into the fire.

Gassho
Andy

Sorry for your worsening health, Andy.

The nice piece you shared about this ill women seems to show a balance can be found, no matter how dire it seems. Seemingly, its the clinging and attachment that keeps us unbalanced.


Gassho