BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 17

[Myoku]

Thank you Taigu,
thank you everyone. I think there is nothing useful for me to add, however,

But once we choose, pick up, add, manipulate and we will simply fail to live this and the let this live us.

But what if this living us would mean that we choose, pick up, add, manipulate? Couldnt it be that our nature is to just do that ?

Don't be abused by words, when people speak, listen to the being- living where these words come from

Good one, but a long way to go for me
Gassho
Myoku

[Taigu]

Closer, mch closer than you think Myoku.

As to the other one, well...just ponder what and who is meant by "we".

Thank you clear- bright- empty-sky

Gassho


Taigu

[galen]

Is not the word `this more important then the interpretation of we? It seems the we part is obvious, where `this mostly gets conceptualized and intellectualized without the true embodiment by us `we's. It seems we talk about `it in all colors and sizes through our delusional small mind, but mostly fail at feeling it more then just occasionally.

[Jiken]

This koan was a reality check for me. A "freeing" lesson and I am grateful for it.

Gassho,

Daido

[Myoku]

Thank you Taigu,
I appreciate your guidance,

As to the other one, well...just ponder what and who is meant by "we".

I let it ponder for a while and I think its "we" (as opposed to It), though no opposites ultimately.
Anyway, thank you and
Gassho
Myoku

[Kaishin]

I'm having trouble with this part of Shishin Wick's commentary

It always comes down to the question, what is this "I"? I alone. What is that "I"? If it is the "I" that has no boundaries, then "I alone" includes everything.

How can "I" not be dualistic? How can it include everything?

He also asks

Is there any difference between Shuzan stating it and Hogen stating it?

I don't know how to answer this.

I will keep chewing.

[Omoi Otoshi]

How can "I" not be dualistic? How can it include everything?

Hi,
I thought I'd stick my neck out and make a fool out of myself. It's a very good practice!

Who am I? What was my face before my parents were born? It all comes back to this.

I am Pontus, a well defined person with well defined ideas living in a well defined place.

But I am also what remains when all notions of body, mind, self, other, time, space, drop away. I am never separate from this underlying reality, this true self this emptiness, this buddha nature, but sleep walking through my samsaric existance, I sometimes forget.

"I am the Universe" is not a very modest thing to say (but a good ice breaker! ). But in a way, it's true. I am Buddha. I am Reality. I am Everything. Nothing exists separate from me. I am All of Existance. No, I haven't gone completely over the edge! "I" implies ego, and "I am everything" implies self-aggrandizement beyond measure, so I understand what it is you're struggling with! It is easier to say that everything includes me, than it is to say that I include everything (It is now me, I am now not It). But it's all just mental wheel spinning. "It" is what It is. I am just this.

As to your second question, it depends on who's saying it, where it's coming from. I can imitate a zen master, but it won't turn me into one. Charading is not the same as seeing clearly. It's not in the words only.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Rich]

You don't need an answer but Pontus provides a very good one.

[Risho]

Thank you!

Gassho,

Risho

[AlanLa]

I am going to throw my tattered hat into the ring on this. Please forgive my ignorance because it's more of a visual explanation, but since I am going to use words instead it will be surely all mucked up.

I like to think of myself ("I") as the culmination of all space and time that came before me as well as the generation of all space and time that comes from me. Sounds really grandiose, but wait a second. I picture it/me/I as the small insignificant looking point on top of a HUGE pyramid of past space/time/life, but that insignificant looking little point is also the base for another HUGE pyramid of future space/time/life. Thus I include and transcend both in this every shifting present moment. And of course everyone is their own little point between, and of, both pyramids. So if you want to do a self-portrait, just draw two pyramids touching at the point. That would be you alone yet without boundaries.

[Kaishin]

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form.

But who can say "I" without separating heaven ad earth? Not I!!!!
Gassho, Kaishin / Matt

[Taigu]

Indeed, wave the fan, drop the fan, in one go.

I is not what separates, what separates is what one puts into it.

Gassho


Taigu

[Omoi Otoshi]

Ven. Seung Sahn writes in the Compass of Zen:

Early one morning, while meditating under the Bodhi Tree, he saw a star in the eastern sky. At that moment—boom!—the young prince Siddhartha got enlightenment. He woke up, and became a Buddha, he attained I. this means that the Buddha attained the true nature of a human being without depending on some outside force or religion or god,. That is Buddha‘s teaching.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Risho]

Taigu's latest teaching speaks of the following poem from Tozan:

it is like looking into a precious mirror
form and image behold each other
You are not it, it is you

I don't always realize the impact that these talks have on me until much later. And they always do, just not immediately. It's like a new way of seeing things. So it takes time to naturally sink in and resonate and inform my practice.

This practice is like chewing food. At first I get a superficial experience of the food, I just taste it. But once that food is ingested my whole body and mind go to work on it, digesting it, garnishing the nutrients from it. Then at some point later, I see something more that I didn't see earlier.

The koans and teachings here are a lot like that. They take time to be absorbed; I only understand so much, what I'm ready for based on my practice, based on this point in my life. Then magically, I remember something hear something, and bam it starts making sense.

Taigu's teaching actually rang a bell for this koan while I was sitting this morning. I enjoy moments like that, but they are just moments. The real work comes in integrating that into life, during the hard times, or what I perceive to be hard when Heaven and Earth are separated.

I live a lot of my life as Heaven and Earth being separated. That's dukkha. That's me reaching out to be it, to stop the dukkha to repeat the cycle over and over. But this practice is the stopping point and going in the opposite direction, letting things be (not passively mind you) so that you can just be. Be with things as they are to act in accord with reality. It's a lot harder than it sounds as I write this, but that's why this practice does take courage.

Instead of facing the separation I create, I used to run from it with distractions. But this practice, Ango, the precepts, the vows, the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are all helpers and how we help each other as well to courageously face this separation, our "demons" and go beyond them to see that this separation is all created within my mind. But, again, it's a very ingrained habit, so it will take a lifetime of practice, of continual seeing, not judging, just seeing and becoming aware of it through practice.

Gassho,

Risho

[Heisoku]

Originally Posted by Taigu
'But once we choose, pick up, add, manipulate and we will simply fail to live this and then let this live us.'




'But what if this living us would mean that we choose, pick up, add, manipulate? Couldnt it be that our nature is to just do that ?' by Myoku.

Was pondering this a lot, wondering where we separate etc. Came to the conclusion that perhaps it doesn't matter....but.... I think in my case that as a child there is a point at which we realise that there is no immediate response when we do something 'wrong', because up to then we were so part of our environment there was no separation and that a natural order of moral behaviour was playing through us. However when there is no negative response we learn that we can 'get away with it' and at that point we make choices about how much we push and play with moral boundaries, hence creating a separation of 'me' from the 'outside world' and our delusion. The work is in allowing our wholeness to return. Our body-mind to be our universal body-mind with right understanding, child-like rather than childish.

Dunno how I am getting along but at times there's a glimmer of hope!