BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 14

[Kyonin]

Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events revealed to you what should have been understood there and then by you?

Oh yes, I can see a lot of instances in my past where I should have understood the value of silence and discipline. At some point I even slapped me in the head for not payed enough attention to life at the time.

Thanks, Mongen.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Myoku]

Thank you Hans, everyone,

Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events revealed to you what should have been understood there and then by you?
Who has more Buddha nature, your father, or your mother?

Last weekend I had a sarcastic comment on someones action. What a disaster, it took us a day to get that straightened out again. Its just a moment, just a second of unawareness and you can destroy a lot. Words are as sharp as a knife and the moment I forget it I cut myself. Buddha nature, yes, yes, we all are (or have) Buddha nature, but what does it help if I cannot maintain awareness when its needed most ? So many opinions that sound so sweet, hard to withstand.
Gassho
Myoku

[Myoku]

What would a student be without a teacher, what would a teacher be without a student? And don't they both come from where questions are born? So who is meeting whom?

I like this one Mongen, we always meet ourselves, from morning to night. There will be times when Questions are valued and there will be times when Questions are not valued; its all good as long as we stay aways from answers.
_()_
Myoku

[galen]

Thank you Hans, everyone,



Last weekend I had a sarcastic comment on someones action. What a disaster, it took us a day to get that straightened out again. Its just a moment, just a second of unawareness and you can destroy a lot. Words are as sharp as a knife and the moment I forget it I cut myself. Buddha nature, yes, yes, we all are (or have) Buddha nature, but what does it help if I cannot maintain awareness when its needed most ? So many opinions that sound so sweet, hard to withstand.
Gassho
Myoku

Myoku,

In that moment of an unconscious slip, was that not also Buddha nature? Was not the lesson well served, even when `seemingly some harm was done? Aren’t you a better person because of it, and didn’t this disruption in the end bring you closer to the injured person or persons? Sometimes these slips (Freudian, if you will) are our true buried feelings and once exposed, yes they are hard to reel back in, but in the end, are not all parties better for it? Was this not also Buddha nature in action, being part of the process to more discovery `our own true nature? Sometimes its not pretty, but beauty comes in all colors. Thank you for sharing this.

[RichardH]

Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events revealed to you what should have been understood there and then by you?

Not sure if it's just the wording, but taken at face value the answer to this question can only be no. Past understanding can't be separated from its moment. There is no “should have”. That is just present understanding being cast back. There is only present understanding. There is regret for past actions and choices, and lessons learned, but that is different.

Who has more Buddha nature, your father, or your mother?

No answer. ... and that is not a clever answer. It evokes too many off-the-shelf Zen books maybe. and is not related to waking up an hour early with a dry mouth and typing in the dark.



Gassho, kojip

[Omoi Otoshi]

Are these supposed to be trick questions? If yes, I don't see the point.

The first question is very hard to understand. I very much agree with Kojip that there is no "should have". Then again, we don't always see clearly and in our delusion we sometimes feel like we "should have" understood something. But then the first part of the question "revealed to you" doesn't make any sense. Is the meaning similar to "Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events you regret that you didn't understand there and then what you now know? Or perhaps "Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events you blamed yourself for not understanding there and then what you could potentially have figured out if causes and conditions in that moment would have been different"? I just don't understand the question. I thought perhaps it had to do with my limited grasp of the english language, but since Kojip doesn't get it either, I guess that's not the case.

The second question is silly.

1) Mu
2) No of no no
3) Who is asking?
4) An oak tree in the garden
5) What? What?
6) KWATZ!
7) *slap in the face*
8) What did your face look like before your parents were born?
9) *desists*
10) My dog doesn't have any

/Pontus

PS. Please explain the meaning of the questions if you see any and I might be able to share something a little more useful. DS.

[Myoku]

I didnt really understand the first question either, but I'm used to that and thought it would just again be my limited English

Myoku,

In that moment of an unconscious slip, was that not also Buddha nature? Was not the lesson well served, even when `seemingly some harm was done? Aren’t you a better person because of it, and didn’t this disruption in the end bring you closer to the injured person or persons? Sometimes these slips (Freudian, if you will) are our true buried feelings and once exposed, yes they are hard to real back in, but in the end, are not all parties better for it? Was this not also Buddha nature in action, being part of the process to more discovery `our own true nature? Sometimes its not pretty, but beauty comes in all colors. Thank you for sharing this.

Wow, so many additional questions. Lets see ... Yes, Yes, No and probably Yes. Seriously, what you say makes sense, and I think I generally agree, except for me being a better person now, I doubt that, but it does not really bother me either.
_()_
Myoku

[Hans]

Hello,

regarding the first question:


"Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events revealed to you what should have been understood there and then by you?"

I personally tend to have quite a few very distinct memories of situations that, when I recall/ed them in great detail years later, made/make me want to smack myself hard...because they suddenly make sense on a different level. "How could I not have understood then? How could I not have seen XYZ?" and similar questions arise. Everything points to the fact that I really really should have understood it there and then.

The odd thing is that even when all the lego pieces seem to be out there in the open, other conditions beyond our immediate understanding come into it as well...and though we might think that we have a certain capacity for understanding...all the right lego pieces....we and "it", the situation, might not be ripe enough yet.

Tokusan was no fool, but the harvest time had not yet come. And now we can do our best to bring the harvest in...thanks partly to his behaviour towards Kaku.

If my questions don't mean anything to you, just forget about them and just enter the Koan in any way that doesn't lead to too much analysing btw.

As for:
"Who has more Buddha nature, your father, or your mother?"

Well, no secrets there really. Just pointing out the obvious, all you have to do is to enjoy the view from where this really silly question leads to.



Gassho,


Hans Chudo Mongen

[Omoi Otoshi]

Thanks Hans,
I somehow thought the questions were from the book... in hindsight "I should have realized" they were yours. I blame lack of sleep lately!

I removed the part in my post about poor wording and apologize if the tone of my post was a little harsh.

The second question is still silly!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Kaishin]

Every day I can look back and see foolish, ignorant mistakes I've made. But that's much ado about nothing. All I can do is keep sitting and hope that I can approach any situation with all the wisdom I can muster.


P.S. Pontus--your English is probably better than that of most native speakers!

[Heisoku]

Can you recall an instance where looking back at past events revealed to you what should have been understood there and then by you?

Just recently my practice has become different in that my mind and body feel...well, clear. I don't mean that they are stress free, just that stresses are not having the same impact. Even the aches disappear after a hot shower, even if for a few minutes.
This feeling of being 'clear' reminded me of what I usually felt in my youth, except with more vitality perhaps! Anyway back then there was always the question of what do I do with this energised clear feeling? It really was something that nagged. If I had followed this 'nagging' through I may well have looked more closely at what I could be doing rather than what I thought I should be doing!
Nowadays what I am doing and what I should be doing are not an issue as what I am doing is 'my practice' and although it is a small practice it is valuable to me and to the small number of people it impacts on. It actually doesn't even feel like a practice, it is just what I do...nothing special. I spent so many years going around the world in a big circle to get back to this, it is almost laughable. If only..... Gassho

[Omoi Otoshi]

That's a very good reply to Hans' question!

But if someone told you today that you are in the same situation now that you were in then, that many years from now you will laugh and shake your head at how blind you were back in 2012, could you somehow make yourself see, make yourself understand?

Gassho,
Pontus

[Heisoku]

Hi Pontus
There is also the fact that I have forgiven myself for not realising what was in front of my face and for the pride that made me look elsewhere and didn't see the edge that tripped me up!
They were not wasted years as I used to think, as I am doing something now I enjoy and all that doesn't matter anymore!
Zazen is great!!!

[Dosho]

Hi all,

Last week at the tea party we were discussing our "favorite" koans...I believe it was brought up partly as a joke, partly as a prelude to discussing ones that struck us. I remember having the thought, "Favorite? Why would I have a favorite? Koans are neither good or bad, happy or sad, they just are." At the time it bothered me a little to think that because it felt like I was saying they aren't very useful...but I didn't mean that at all. Hmmm. So, after reading this koan's copmmentary where Shishin discussed the idea that every teaching has a place, a time, and an audience to which it can be applied. It is in some ways a toolbelt for the teacher to use when the time is right. As a student that's awesome because I have so much to be taught if I listen carefully. As a possible future teacher, yikes! I have to keep all those on my toolbelt?

I obsessively look back at what I should have done in various circumstances, but my wife is my best teacher in this reagrd. It has happened, you can't change it, why go to a "should have"? Remember the lesson, learn from the lesson, don't overthink the lesson and move on.

As for who has more buddha nature, definitely my Dad. But also my Mom. What a silly question! And that's entirely the point!

Gassho,
Dosho

[AlanLa]

I have been on both sides of this sort of exchange many times, both as a teacher and as a student. Questioner asks a question that gets quickly answered, and then some time later the answerer goes, "Oh, that really wasn't the question, was it?" and finally addresses the real question. The point in these situations is not that the answerer misses the original point, but that they finally get the point at all. It takes patience on both sides; the teacher needs to let the question settle in, and the student needs to let the true answer bubble up.

I cannot count how many times (not so much because it was so many as much because it's too hard to look back on) I have spouted off only to find out later I was just plain Wrong. OOPS, but I learned from those experiences, and so they were painfully valuable.

As for the buddha nature question: