BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 11

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  • alan.r
    Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 546

    #16
    Sick with myself, sick with wanting, sick with boredom, sick with work, sick on a run in the evening, with thoughts, with feelings, with another's thoughts and feelings, sick with ideas, with words, sick sitting zazen, sick in that deep-humming zazen, sick sitting up after zazen, walking the house and trying to hold the quiet, sick of not finding it, not finding it, not finding, trying to get to that stopping point, not finding it, sick with zen, sick without it, sick with sweeping, sick with quiet, sick in stillness, still in sickness, quiet within sickness, resting in sickness, sick of letting myself be which is not letting myself be, letting myself be sick, that most difficult trick, not even a trick.
    Shōmon

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    • Jiken
      Member
      • Jan 2011
      • 753

      #17
      In your practice, where do you feel you are in suffering and treating these various diseases?

      I dont feel like I am anywhere as at different times I feel like I am suffering from and treating these diseases. For me it varies from moment to moment and changes so often it does not feel like a fixed position. Suffer then treat. Suffer then treat over and over again.

      Gassho,

      Daido

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40269

        #18
        Originally posted by Kaishin
        Jundo, can you explain a bit more what you mean by a "cheap feeling of oneness and perfection?"
        Gassho, Kaishin
        Hi Kaishin,

        I am referring to a kind of passing "peak experience" that can be encountered from time to time by meditators and anyone at certain moments in life. The best example might be when the dentist gives you the laughing gas and suddenly "all is right with the world". One is high, feeling incredible bliss, that all one's problems have vanished, that one does not have fear, all is happy la la land with a deep love for life and the world. It's lovely ... but in the end as temporary and thin as the gas. Falling in love or winning the lottery might produce a similar high for awhile, as might a couple of bottles of beer. Some forms of meditation can succeed in giving one such bliss states, although drugs are usually faster. Some folks want to feel like that all the time, and run after that, hunger for the high, and think it the point of Buddhist Practice. I like those times too. Yet, not only do they not last but, even if they did, I believe such bliss less profound and less powerful than the Blissful Peace of Zazen Samadhi.

        That is because our Happiness and Peace and Bliss goes right to the heart of the human condition, and embraces life fully without trying to run from it to "la la land". It is a Happiness and Peace so all encompassing that it includes being Happy and at Peace with those parts of life that are happy and those that are sad, rainy days and sunny, all disturbance, moments of bliss and bummers. I would say that it goes to the root of human Dukkha (Suffering) in a more thorough way that the "laughing gas" cannot. Zazen is the medicine that really cures the disease ... not just temporarily masking the symptoms.

        Otherwise, just go get some tanks of laughing gas and strap them on if that's what you want.

        Gassho, J
        Last edited by Jundo; 08-08-2012, 01:44 AM.
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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        • Heisoku
          Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 1338

          #19
          In your practice, where do you feel you are in suffering and treating these various diseases?
          I don't know which sickness I suffer from but I just try and realise my delusions from moment to moment. Conversely I also try not to let any (if any?) realisations stick out. Each moment is presence, not bound by 'before' or 'next', so too is awareness, just now, just now.... even when conforming to protocols (whether those insisted on or those in ritual) at work or elsewhere. Being aware of any resistance or attraction, then working on letting them go, again and again.
          I like the quote in Taigen's book from Suzuki Roshi where we are described as constantly being unbalanced and in zazen we regain our posture and composure...only to be unbalanced in the world again. Maintaining to keep my balance from moment to moment, in constant awareness of balance and inbalance, this is my treatment and practice.
          Heisoku 平 息
          Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

          Comment

          • Kaishin
            Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 2322

            #20
            Originally posted by Jundo
            Hi Kaishin,

            I am referring to a kind of passing "peak experience" that can be encountered from time to time by meditators and anyone at certain moments in life. The best example might be when the dentist gives you the laughing gas and suddenly "all is right with the world". One is high, feeling incredible bliss, that all one's problems have vanished, that one does not have fear, all is happy la la land with a deep love for life and the world. It's lovely ... but in the end as temporary and thin as the gas. Falling in love or winning the lottery might produce a similar high for awhile, as might a couple of bottles of beer. Some forms of meditation can succeed in giving one such bliss states, although drugs are usually faster. Some folks want to feel like that all the time, and run after that, hunger for the high, and think it the point of Buddhist Practice. I like those times too. Yet, not only do they not last but, even if they did, I believe such bliss less profound and less powerful than the Blissful Peace of Zazen Samadhi.

            That is because our Happiness and Peace and Bliss goes right to the heart of the human condition, and embraces life fully without trying to run from it to "la la land". It is a Happiness and Peace so all encompassing that it includes being Happy and at Peace with those parts of life that are happy and those that are sad, rainy days and sunny, all disturbance, moments of bliss and bummers. I would say that it goes to the root of human Dukkha (Suffering) in a more thorough way that the "laughing gas" cannot. Zazen is the medicine that really cures the disease ... not just temporarily masking the symptoms.

            Otherwise, just go get some tanks of laughing gas and strap them on if that's what you want.

            Gassho, J
            Ah, thank you for the clarification!
            Last edited by Jundo; 08-08-2012, 01:44 AM.
            Thanks,
            Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
            Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

            Comment

            • Jigetsu
              Member
              • May 2011
              • 236

              #21
              I have to say I'm struggling with this one. Lots of our famous double talk, difficult to wrap my mind around. Maybe that's my sickness.
              _/\_
              Jigetsu

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40269

                #22
                Originally posted by Jigetsu
                I have to say I'm struggling with this one. Lots of our famous double talk, difficult to wrap my mind around. Maybe that's my sickness.
                We have a life time(s) to wrestle with the Cases ... to dance with the Cases ... and they are not homework assignments due in by Friday or you get an "F". So, fear not.

                Everybody passes, even without passing through.

                Here is something to lighten things up ... Zen and the Zen of Zen ... (some mildly adult content )

                You may wish to rent a "surrogate sitter".

                Last edited by Jundo; 08-10-2012, 09:26 AM.
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • Ekai
                  Member
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 672

                  #23
                  One of the many things I always need to work on is my self-doubt, second guessing and self-judgement. It's a never-ending process of recognizing and letting go while learning to be more patient with myself. I far more critical of myself than I am to others.

                  Gassho,
                  Ekai

                  Comment

                  • Kaishin
                    Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 2322

                    #24
                    I know I'm sick. It's a good start.
                    Thanks,
                    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
                    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

                    Comment

                    • galen
                      Member
                      • Feb 2012
                      • 322

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Jundo
                      We have a life time(s) to wrestle with the Cases ... to dance with the Cases ... and they are not homework assignments due in by Friday or you get an "F". So, fear not.

                      Everybody passes, even without passing through.

                      Here is something to lighten things up ... Zen and the Zen of Zen ... (some mildly adult content )

                      You may wish to rent a "surrogate sitter".


                      That was excellent, thank you, Jundo!

                      _/\_

                      _/\_
                      Nothing Special

                      Comment

                      • alan.r
                        Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 546

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Jigetsu
                        I have to say I'm struggling with this one. Lots of our famous double talk, difficult to wrap my mind around. Maybe that's my sickness.
                        I think you're right on, actually, and that one of the things we constantly try to do with ourselves, like is Koan, is to figure ourselves out. To get ourselves straight and clean and nicely and thoroughly let-go. And we try to wrap our mind around this, going, "Hey, am I straightened out now? Did this sitting do it? Yep, I'm pretty sure I let go completely this time." And so, our practice is just like this Koan, with us going, "Yes, Now I'm a good almost perfect Buddhist, I think, I'm pretty sure, here, let me check." But that's a sickness. Where, what, how to check? Nothing to see there. So the first sickness is like trying to get a view of the self and make sure we've got it. The second sickness is more about mistaking the Dharma for the self, going, "Yes, got it, found it." Which as Taigu wonderfully pointed out in one video is exactly when we don't have it, when we're sick. But I think there's another one, another sickness, or at least there is for me. when we are lost in thoughts, lost a bit in Samsara, we like to go, "Oh crap, now I'm not being a good Zen person and I need to get figured out again, get back to my Zen self, get in line with the Dharma again, okay, let me sit and let some light penetrate" - and that's another sickness. We're kind of like the guy sitting on the bed in video Jundo posted - our little thoughts arguing and judging and all the while our little ego either confused or pleased or sick or unable to see the little game it's playing. Be sick and in that being sick not so sick. Maybe, who knows.
                        Shōmon

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40269

                          #27
                          Originally posted by alan.r
                          I think you're right on, actually, and that one of the things we constantly try to do with ourselves, like is Koan, is to figure ourselves out. To get ourselves straight and clean and nicely and thoroughly let-go. And we try to wrap our mind around this, going, "Hey, am I straightened out now? Did this sitting do it? Yep, I'm pretty sure I let go completely this time." And so, our practice is just like this Koan, with us going, "Yes, Now I'm a good almost perfect Buddhist, I think, I'm pretty sure, here, let me check." But that's a sickness. Where, what, how to check? Nothing to see there. So the first sickness is like trying to get a view of the self and make sure we've got it. The second sickness is more about mistaking the Dharma for the self, going, "Yes, got it, found it." Which as Taigu wonderfully pointed out in one video is exactly when we don't have it, when we're sick. But I think there's another one, another sickness, or at least there is for me. when we are lost in thoughts, lost a bit in Samsara, we like to go, "Oh crap, now I'm not being a good Zen person and I need to get figured out again, get back to my Zen self, get in line with the Dharma again, okay, let me sit and let some light penetrate" - and that's another sickness. We're kind of like the guy sitting on the bed in video Jundo posted - our little thoughts arguing and judging and all the while our little ego either confused or pleased or sick or unable to see the little game it's playing. Be sick and in that being sick not so sick. Maybe, who knows.
                          Thank you. Gassho. Let's all work our way through these words a few times, and a few times again.

                          Now, Al, don't fall into the sickness of letting a little praise go to your head!


                          J
                          Last edited by Jundo; 08-11-2012, 02:18 AM.
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • Thane
                            Member
                            • May 2012
                            • 37

                            #28
                            Hi folks

                            Its been a busy week and i haven't been able to read this as much as i would have liked but as Jundo says it is not homework. This really spoke to me. I certainly have caught some of the sickness described. Certainly in the past and who knows maybe to a lesser degree today i have fallen into thinking yes i've found it, this is it. I distinctly remember attending a week long Jukai retreat in 2003 and thinking i'd cracked the practice. Of course i couldn't sustain the early starts and lots of sitting in a busy family and working life. I was clinging to the practice, like i once clung to other things. Ummon seems to be telling me to be wary of this and head for the middle road.

                            Gassho

                            Thane

                            Comment

                            • alan.r
                              Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 546

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Jundo

                              Now, Al, don't fall into the sickness of letting a little praise go to your head!


                              J
                              Are you subtly suggesting that I let my wife read that little paragraph and then give me the 'oh-brother-sideways-look.' I don't want to, I don't want to!

                              Thank you and Gassho,
                              alan
                              Shōmon

                              Comment

                              • Myoku
                                Member
                                • Jul 2010
                                • 1491

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Jundo
                                In your practice, where do you feel you are in suffering and treating these various diseases?
                                There is no place or moment where I not suffer from those and there is no place or moment where I not treat them. If that sounds clever, I once again made it into the trap, if not, phew ... Anyway, this koan reminds me that whenever I think I got something, I'm in the trap agin. This is funny, because naturally there seems to be a willing to "get it", to put it in a phrase or magic formula. Letting go sounds like a good cure, being curious, being open.
                                _()_
                                Myoku

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