BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 8

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  • Ekai
    Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 672

    #31
    Originally posted by Kaishin
    Been turning this one over and over. Still don't know. But to answer your questions:

    How are you painting your life now, and how would you like to paint it? Is Zen Practice helping to make you a better painter?

    - Been painting my life with eight brushes at once. Quite a mess. Zen practice over the past few years has helped me to remove some of them. So now I'm painting with maybe three or four.

    _/\_

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]472[/ATTACH]
    I can relate to that!

    Gassho,
    Ekai

    Comment

    • Thane
      Member
      • May 2012
      • 37

      #32
      Hi Kevin

      Thanks for your very honest post.

      Gassho

      Thane

      Comment

      • Risho
        Member
        • May 2010
        • 3179

        #33
        Thank you Jundo for this excellent teaching. It's difficult to digest because this some really deep stuff; it's like explaining "Form is emptiness. Emptiness is Form." I really like your analogy of the painter and the painting. This life cannot be pidgeon-holed into simple boxes, yet we need to pursue a path of understanding. I have to say I really like this koan work. It has lit a fire under my ass. lol

        Belief systems are complicated things. We fight wars over them, every one has them and every one lives their lives out of them to a certain extent, whether they realize it or not. I personally have a theory that whether or not we realize it, we strongly adhere to the belief systems that were introduced to us in our formative years. We may wear the robes of another religion, but our myths are deeply embedded in us. [I believe Jung referred to these as archetypes, but I'm not a Jungian expert by any means.] In any case, these are the cultural myths that are ingrained in us when we are children in addition to things we learn from our parents. I guess these are the habits we have and why they "die hard".

        I think we'll really know our beliefs when we are on our death beds. Hopefully, we learn them before then, but I certainly believe death is where the "rubber meets the road". I love your point about lip service, and Taigu's previous point about these teachings, sutras, the Shobogenzo being our lives. We can fool ourselves, dress up in the zen clothing, do the rituals and talk the talk; it may make us be perceived as 'enlightened' or 'spiritual', but it's non-sense. The ultimate litmus test is how we live our lives; I know I'm paraphrasing what you have written previously there, but I believe that to be true.

        I didn't take this practice up to add another head atop my own (as Daido Roshi would say) or to add new mythologies to my existing storyline. I have enough myths to live with. I grew up in a Judeo-Christian culture, and while I'm not particularly religious, I am a Christian. I just believe in it... now I'm not a fundamentalist by any means. I'm a man of reason, but I still cling to my myths. It's part of who I am, and I think that is due to my upbringing.

        So while I cannot logically defend my faith, I do live my life in a way with a filter based on that faith. And not just those beliefs, the filter includes all of the cultural trappings.

        Arguing for or against such beliefs is ludicrous. Whether we're arguing about heaven, hell, rebirth, etc, we may as well argue about unicorns and leprichauns. It's fun to speculate, but that is as far as it goes. When we actually start investing in these speculations to the point where we separate ourselves into groups and judge other people, that's where we do tremendous damage. "You are gay, you don't believe in 'my god', you aren't going to heaven, you are not a true human." That is ludicrous! And precepts, or not, that type of exclusive belief system pisses me off.

        So I wouldn't argue against someone having a belief in rebirth, I just don't believe in it. I wouldn't really try to convince others either. And that's where we make mistakes. You see, you can believe in what you want, but if you try to sell me on your bullshit, I'm going to tell you where I stand (respectfully). Because even though we believe in certain things, doesn't make them so, no matter what "The Secret" or other bullshit self-help propaganda tells us.

        At the same time, that belief informs certain parts of our lives whether we realize it or not.

        Zen is not a religion to me. It is a down to earth practice that actually helps me realize that I have these beliefs and allows me not to buy into them so much where I can't see the forest for the trees. Zen is not anti-science... it's not anti-anything. For lack of a better term, it's like a framework that helps us see who we are and recognize what we think without having any negative judgements.

        It's like before you know how to read as a child, once you learn how to read, you can never go back. Zen practice is like that in some respects.

        It's natural for human beings to invent religion to explain life. It's what we do; we have this drive to know things, to explain our world. But we need to recognize those things for what they are. When we wrap institutions around things that are not provable, it gets weird. It gets weird when people latch onto beliefs without questioning them; it's as if one is so desperate for answers, they'll just take the first explanation they are given so they can avoid responsibility for searching for answers. But I think it always comes back. We want answers. We should question, even with full knowledge that things won't be answered. We deserve it for ourselves, in this life, not to just accept what we are spoonfed.. whether it be myths about the afterlife or even everyday things like you need to buy this or wear that to be accepted by society..Bullshit!

        That's why I'm driven to Treeleaf. Jundo and Taigu and the sangha here don't put up with the bullshit. lol That's what Zen is.. recognize our bullshit for what it is. It will drop away naturally. Or maybe it won't. Sometimes beliefs are deeply ingrained, but it shows me how to live with the beliefs without forcing them on others. Maybe that is a way of saving sentient beings.

        In this koan, I feel there's a similar thing going on here. We cling to form, or we cling to emptiness. Which is it? My mind needs to know... but it's not just one or the other. We have to act in this world, even if it is illusory in the sense that things are not permanently fixed and independent. We are individuals even though we are all linked together and affect each other.

        Buddhism can seem like it is nihilism, but that's only if you understand part of the teaching. We have to go beyond emptiness to realize that that's where the beauty is. To quote from the Nishijima/Cross translation of Genjokoan (in book 1 of the Shobogenzo):

        [83] When all dharmas are [seen as] the Buddha-Dharma, then there is delusion
        and realization, there is practice, there is life and there is death, there
        are buddhas and there are ordinary beings. When the myriad dharmas are
        each not of the self, there is no delusion and no realization, no buddhas and
        no ordinary beings, no life and no death. The Buddha’s truth is originally
        transcendent over abundance and scarcity, and so there is life and death, there
        is delusion and realization, there are beings and buddhas
        This practice is continual work because life is dynamic and changing. If we sit on the cushion like dead logs, we are not doing real Shikantaza. We must continually examine our practice; fortunately we have a Sangha to keep us true to the spirit of that path.

        We also have to express ourselves as individuals after we've learned things. It's not good enough to say "Gassho" all the time or give lip service to these teachings. It is up to us to test the teachings and practice until we know for ourselves if this is legitimate. Practice is very active.

        This is how I paint my life now; I try to recognize the bs for bs, and learn about my belief systems. The practice gives me this awareness and allows me to not cling so tightly to things I assume are so obvious.

        I have a long way to go; I'm just a beginner trying to feel my way along with the help of this excellent Sangha.

        Gassho,

        Risho
        Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

        Comment

        • adrianbkelly
          Member
          • Jun 2012
          • 214

          #34
          Thanks Risho; so much to chew on! When you boil Zen down to it's essence, I think it is nothing more than facing yourself & the world head on & seeing clearly how much of our own bs we bring to the experience.

          Life is life, & will carry on doing what it does regardless of what we believe about it.

          _/\_

          Ade

          Comment

          • Kevin
            Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 113

            #35
            Originally posted by Risho
            I personally have a theory that whether or not we realize it, we strongly adhere to the belief systems that were introduced to us in our formative years. We may wear the robes of another religion, but our myths are deeply embedded in us.
            I agree. And yet...

            Originally posted by Risho
            we do in the end have the ability to choose how we react
            And, as you say, Zen is...

            Originally posted by Risho
            a down to earth practice that actually helps me realize that I have these beliefs and allows me not to buy into them so much where I can't see the forest for the trees
            Once we have seen these beliefs for what they are, we can consciously choose to do whatever we wish. We can believe in them wholeheartedly, reject them entirely, or find some middle ground. We can choose to go to war over them, if we like. But, I feel for those who kill (or any other drastic action) for unexamined beliefs. They walk a path on which it is difficult to change course, and they may one day awaken to decide they do not want to be on that path, never intended to be on it. Then, they suffer even more.

            I, too, grew up in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I was raised Roman Catholic, though in a family that followed those beliefs in an unexamined way (as far as I recall). I fell away from that church in my teen years. But, that belief system acts as a counterpoint for me. It is a spiritual rough draft, if you like, that I am constantly revising as I learn and grow. I believe in God, but I no longer believe in a God that the average unexamined Roman Catholic (or Mormon, for that matter, which is another belief system I lived in for a time) would necessarily recognize. But, you're right. My conception of God is an outgrowth from that starting point I was given as a child.

            One thing Zen teaches me is that I don't need to cling to any belief at all, and that my not-clinging doesn't make the belief untrue, just as my clinging doesn't make it true. And it teaches me that two seemingly mutually exclusive beliefs can co-exist in truth, can even be dependent upon one another (you can't fill air with water, but is it the glass that you fill or the air contained within it?). This understanding has led to a lot of indecision in my life , and I'm starting to understand that, too. But, you can't change if you're not willing to question, and you can't question if you're not willing to doubt, and so many forces nowadays are trying desperately to eliminate all doubt by encouraging us not to think deeply about anything at all.

            Thank you for your thoughtful post.

            Gassho,
            Kevin
            aka. Joko

            Comment

            • RichardH
              Member
              • Nov 2011
              • 2800

              #36
              There is something else in this koan. We paint our painter... we paint a good painter, and in that relative peace of goodness... we can better realize the always unborn canvas.. But there is also the hand the painter has been dealt. Sometimes in Buddhism there can be a kind of “If I can do it, you can do it” attitude... yet it isn't so simple. Yes conditions are conditions and practice is practice, regardless. But we each approach practice from different backgrounds and experiences, social, economic, familial, neurological, emotional, that can be just as much an advantage or disadvantage to practice as it is to engaging in any other discipline. Even though we all have beginningless karma... some have heavier karma than others. For example, someone traumatized in childhood may have a tougher time seeing through certain perceptions and emotional reactions than someone raised in a peaceful stable home.
              In a way.. maybe those with tougher, karma... a tougher , deeper, headwind, can realize a practice of proportional depth and sturdiness. Zazen is nothing gained, yet at the same time that “nothing gained” is all the more wonderful for being hard-won.

              Gassho
              Last edited by RichardH; 07-13-2012, 02:40 AM.

              Comment

              • Shogen
                Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 301

                #37
                The data base of my choices is my practice. Hopefully my choice of actions improve as my practice matures. Are the results of my actions good or bad? In any case I assume complete responsibility for all of them. Gassho, Shogen

                Comment

                • AlanLa
                  Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 1405

                  #38
                  I really needed the explanation on this one. Thank you for that, Jundo. Here are my sort of random thoughts on it:

                  In the absolute there is no karma, but karma does exist in the relative life we lead on a day to day basis. It's the Sandokai box and lid thing again.

                  You can be a victim of life (karma) or you can be an active agent and create good karma in your life; the choice is yours. But recognize that it's not that simple.

                  Karma/no karma, free will/no free will, victim/active agent - just more examples of duality that are not all that helpful because they are so restrictive. I find viewing such concepts as continuums as much more useful.

                  If I am reborn as a wild fox, then I will just BE a wild fox. I believe very strongly in the old adage that you play the hand you are dealt in life. The dealer is not very important, nor is how they shuffled the cards before dealing them to you. What is important is how you play your hand in life. My zen practice has helped me play my hand much better.

                  The timing on this koan is interesting. I have been having some difficulties with a student recently and trying to come to a better understanding of what role I played in that difficulty in relation to the role played by the student in that difficulty has been a struggle. I wrote in my journal about it that I need to just accept the fact that I am creating karma here, that I am not free of it at all. Obvious, yes, but seeing it in the day-to-dayness of life is enlightening, much more so than thinking about it conceptually. As Jundo said, reading about driving a car will not prepare you very well for the actual experience of driving a car. Living my karma as influenced by others karma, and doing so mindfully, now that's some serious driving practice.
                  AL (Jigen) in:
                  Faith/Trust
                  Courage/Love
                  Awareness/Action!

                  I sat today

                  Comment

                  • BrianW
                    Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 511

                    #39
                    Hello all,

                    I have a friend who is an artist by profession. One of his techniques is to paint a canvas….paint over it….(sometimes many layers) and then scrape off parts of the layers. It seems to me this is analogous to karma…..we have layers of karma on our canvas and some of it is very difficult to live with….some of it might disgust us….we don’t want to pass this on to our children. Yet there are parts that are OK….perhaps even "good" and we wish to keep these parts.

                    Guided by the precepts, we scrape and work diligently to better our canvas. I’ve been dealing with much family karma lately and it can be exhausting work. It helps to realize the blank canvas underneath all those layers. I’ve found it difficult, as of late, to “feel” or “realize” (perhaps not the best words) this blank canvas…..my zazen is more “scattered” than usual. Yet I need to just let some of this just "be." Like in the movie “Six Degrees of Separation” a second grade teacher explains how her children’s’ paintings are so brilliant because she knows when to take them away from her students. At times we need to just stop or we end up like Shohei mentioned above just "chasing our tail."

                    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                    Gassho,
                    Jisen/BrianW
                    Last edited by BrianW; 07-15-2012, 07:01 PM.

                    Comment

                    • andyZ
                      Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 303

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Jundo
                      Questions ...

                      How are you painting your life now, and how would you like to paint it? Is Zen Practice helping to make you a better painter?
                      I'm trying to paint my life one brush stroke at a time. That's what really happens at each moment anyway whether we notice it or not. Does it still leave a karma trail? Yes it does with every single action. I have my share of bad karma luggage but what zen practice is teaching me is how to leave a karma trail that is less destructive to self and everyone around me.
                      Gassho,
                      Andy

                      Comment

                      • Ekai
                        Member
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 672

                        #41
                        I try to do best to not harm anyone with my thoughts, actions and speech. Sometimes I do well and sometimes I make mistakes, mainly with my husband. It's funny how it can be harder to treat the ones closest to us with patience and kindness than our fellow colleague or neighbor. Maybe we take our loved ones for granted and let our guards down too much. Anyway, I believe that how we relate and respond to a person or situation makes an impact in the world so I try to act with kindness to create a positive ripples. Every bit of loving kindness makes a difference no matter how small or big it is. And every bit of malice and unkindness creates a negative effect no matter how small or big it is. Living this way by treating people with kindness creates peace within myself and I hope that peace extends out toward others. At least I do my best and just let the chips fall where they may.

                        Gassho,
                        Ekai

                        Comment

                        • Ray
                          Member
                          • Oct 2011
                          • 82

                          #42
                          Ekai,

                          I feel exactly the same on your point how it is easier to treat the ones not as close to you with enough kindness. I feel releived that somebody else is also doing this. I feel as though i do not show compassion towards my wife when i should and find it easier to show more compassion towards others around me and people i don,t know and it gets pointed out to me very often that i am kind to everybody except her and u can guess who brings this to my attention. I think part of it is how we don't see their actions and things they have said in the past like water birds we see all the trails they have left behind and instead we go by past experiences of their reactions to situations and we let that determine our behaviour towards them.

                          To answer jundo,s question i would describe my painting as a work of beautiful art and then i have to go and shit on it. I only realise i have ruined the painting once it is too late and my words cannot be taken back.

                          Gassho



                          Originally posted by Ekai
                          I try to do best to not harm anyone with my thoughts, actions and speech. Sometimes I do well and sometimes I make mistakes, mainly with my husband. It's funny how it can be harder to treat the ones closest to us with patience and kindness than our fellow colleague or neighbor. Maybe we take our loved ones for granted and let our guards down too much. Anyway, I believe that how we relate and respond to a person or situation makes an impact in the world so I try to act with kindness to create a positive ripples. Every bit of loving kindness makes a difference no matter how small or big it is. And every bit of malice and unkindness creates a negative effect no matter how small or big it is. Living this way by treating people with kindness creates peace within myself and I hope that peace extends out toward others. At least I do my best and just let the chips fall where they may.

                          Gassho,
                          Ekai
                          Last edited by Ray; 07-17-2012, 09:52 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Myozan Kodo
                            Friend of Treeleaf
                            • May 2010
                            • 1901

                            #43
                            Thank you Jundo and everyone.

                            What about this:

                            The monk got it wrong.
                            Became a fox.
                            The monk makes amends.
                            Hey presto, he's a monk again.

                            Nothing hidden. A straight up story.

                            Gassho
                            Myozan

                            Comment

                            • Koshin
                              Member
                              • Feb 2012
                              • 938

                              #44
                              Not understanding the deepness of this koan yet, but anyway, I think, if you act good, it brings consequences, you act badly, the same... but then, what is good, what is bad?? How can we see all the outcome of all our actions, in the past, present future?? And the interconnection of the actions of all sentient beings make it harder to forsee.... But... then, you now what is good, you know what is bad, you take full responsibility of your actions, the outcomes, and try to do your best (or better yet, not try, just do), until the day you die...I don't know :P

                              Gassho
                              Thank you for your practice

                              Comment

                              • Myoshin

                                #45
                                In fact, I too have some difficulties to understand this koan, maybe because I want to paint all that understand to fix it with my mind. I have to let the time to understand it more than previously. But I feel something like we are in the middle of illusion, and that's why and how we have the possibilty to be awakened. That's why samsara and nirvana are one. If I'm not wrong the vision of Dogen is not linear but more than something popping up then vanishes, another think after, and between there's this emptiness, and because of this blank, or emptiness betwee two "popping up" that we can find practice-realisation:this gap between 2 things popping up.
                                my english is not so relevant to make this more clear, maybe someone will understand my frenglish and thank you Jundo your explanations on the zazenkai is more clear than the koan ;-)

                                Gassho everybody

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