BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 6

[Hoyu]

Congratulations Shokai!!

[AlanLa]

Great bows to GGG-P Shokai

it occurs to me that my first post here wasn't all that personal. I mean, I addressed the case but it wasn't really about my experience. But part of my post from the Introduction that I also wrote today does address that, so I quote it here:

When the announcement came out about koan study with this book, I thought about, thought about it, and thought about it some more. I decided that I wasn't interested, wasn't interested, and wasn't interested some more. I think enough as it is, too much and too often (Jundo and Taigu remind me from time to time about this), as just my thinking about the possibility of koan thinking aptly demonstrates. So I kept dismissing it, but it kept nagging at me. Then I happened to check one of the threads and it reminded me of the dharma transmission books we read, which I really liked and got a lot out of, so I changed my mind and here I am. Maybe I can learn to think differently, or maybe it will help my practice, or both, or neither. See, thinking too much already.

Maybe if I was aware of this koan before I wasted all that time thinking about if i should do koans or not I would have been wise enough to say to myself, "Shut up and do it!"

One more thing, I cannot let this legless walking issue go without comment. As a person who has never walked, this just does not ring my bell at all. I understand it as its own koan. Walking is a logic system almost entirely outside my own. I have done this strange activity with heavy braces and crutches as a child, but there was never anything natural about it at all. On the other hand, however, I have obviously been around people who walk all my life, so I know it, but more as an observer than one who participates. From countless conversations with those like me, this is true for us. Of course, back when these were koans written, we were pretty much outcasts from even them Zen folk. Yet there is no separation of them/us.
Hmm, I just love koans within koans

[adrianbkelly]

Congratulations Shokai! Does this mean you're now a Patriarch?

[Jundo]

One more thing, I cannot let this legless walking issue go without comment. As a person who has never walked, this just does not ring my bell at all. I understand it as its own koan. Walking is a logic system almost entirely outside my own. I have done this strange activity with heavy braces and crutches as a child, but there was never anything natural about it at all. On the other hand, however, I have obviously been around people who walk all my life, so I know it, but more as an observer than one who participates. From countless conversations with those like me, this is true for us. Of course, back when these were koans written, we were pretty much outcasts from even them Zen folk. Yet there is no separation of them/us.
Hmm, I just love koans within koans

Alan, you seem to feel that this is limited to walking with legs, or that one in a wheelchair all their life cannot walk across galaxies!

Substitute talking, singing, going to the toilet, learning to roll in a wheelchair, sit Zazen ... all the same principle. This bird learning to fly does not require wings, fills the boundless sky and leaves no traces!

In a Buddha's learning to walk, there is no need for legs ... and thus he takes 7 steps which cover the universe. Thus, the Buddha was said to be born walking and talking and pointing to the earth and heavens and himself ... before he sat down, shut up, and had to learn all over again as a baby!



Gassho, J

[Mp]

Wow ... wonderful news Shokai, Congrats!

Gassho,
Michael

[AlanLa]

Yeah, I know, I took the legless thing too literally. I couldn't help myself.

On the other hand, there is this article about the hand that I think fits here somehow.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/06/27/155862376/phantom-finger-points-to-secrets-in-the-human-brain

[Nenka]

Ah, that poor monk, bouncing from teacher to teacher, trying to get someone to tell him answers. I've been that guy. Actually, every time I buy a new Zen book I wonder if I still am that guy.

QUESTIONS:

- How is Zen Practice like "learning to breathe, learning to walk" in your life?

- Even though walking and breathing are the most natural of activities ... does medical research on walking and breathing (Buddhist philosophy) and medicine/physicians (Zen teachers) have some important place?

Are learning to breathe, learning to walk the most natural things in the world? Yes. Do we sometimes need that finger pointing at the moon? Yes.

Do we need medical research on walking and breathing? Hell yes, but I may be slightly biased, as an asthmatic who has finally started to listen to the doctors and pursue better medical care, with good results. I'm being literal here, but yes, the guidance of Buddhist philosophers and Zen teachers IS important . . . although the real work is your own, just Doing, and allowing someone to give you instruction when needed.

Gassho

Jen

[BrianW]

Zen practice is like learning to breathe and learning to walk in that at some point we simply must do it. Let go of concepts and preconceived ideas.

Buddhist philosophy and Zen teachers do have a place. Keeping in mind my response above, our online discussion would be pretty empty, if we paid no attention to Buddhist philosophy or Zen teachers. Post-modernism at its best – hold two propositions that are logically incongruent at the same time. As Jundo has said many times Buddhism operates on many levels at the same time.

Gassho,
BrianW/Jisen

[Jinyo]

Firstly - congratulations Shokai - lovely news !

Jen - I so agree with you - sometimes - with each new book - I think I'm compulsively reaching for the same road map - over and over again.

But there's definately a place for Buddhist philosophy and Zen teachers - at least until - like that stage in

child development when the toddler eventually finds the courage and confidence to walk/explore on her own - we just get on with it.

Gassho

Willow

[BrianW]

Oh my forgot to mention ... Shokai congratulations!

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

[Koshin]

Congratulations Shokai

Howis Zen Practice like "learning to breathe, learning to walk" in yourlife?
I think that while swimming or walking are things you learn naturally, over time we add unnecessary thought to these activities, so that we make them more complex than they really are ... so with the rest of our lifes, we need to un-learn, or better yet, discard our thinking and tagging about things, to appreciate them in their raw and beautiful "as it is-ness". Not easy, if you think about it

Eventhough walking and breathing are the most natural of activities ... doesmedical research on walking and breathing (Buddhist philosophy) andmedicine/physicians (Zen teachers) have some important place?
Of course, even the best swimming manual and swimming instructor are not by themselves our own swim, yet they can always serve as guides to keep us from drowning

Gassho

[Kyonin]

Seeker seeking answers

Zen master

All I could see was this...

case-6.jpg