How can things not be interconnected? Feeling my feet on the Forest floor, I imagine the ground stretching out and reaching every other place, and then through the medium of space, the planet, itself, touching other worlds. But back to the particular and these two feet on the ground. No matter how I try, the connection cannot be broken. Relationship is the fact of living. Try as we might, we cannot be out of relationship. The nature of relationship is influence and impact, one thing upon another. Due to this, we are responsible not only for ourselves, but for each other. It’s a fact that can’t be helped. That means we get the opportunity to decide how we will influence and impact self and others. It’s probably a good thing we are mostly unaware of the “myriad things” that converge to move us every time we make a choice. It would drive us crazy. Every time we move/act, we are expressing the influence of countless connections between us and everything else. And that is a wondrous and beautiful fact of living every moment. ^^forestsattoday^^ CatherineS/Forest Dweller
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I would offer that Hua-yen Buddhism is speaking of not only interconnection ... although there is that too.
There is, in such way of knowing reality, truly interpenetration and intra-identity (I may have made up that last word just now as I can't find it by a quick search on google, but I believe you get the point).
Beyond that, all truly flow into each other, are expressions of each other and, what is more, truly ARE each other in most intimate sense.
What would be a quick example?
Well, suppose a hair in Jeremy's lovely moustache were to wake up and become sentient, with a sense of independent existence. It would feel that it is it, apart from all the other moustache hairs and the rest of Jeremy. That is true. It is just that one moustache hair.
But from other perspectives, it is all just the moustache, and all the moustache, and all the hairs, and all of Jeremy's face, and all of Jeremy's body and organs which nurture its life ... in fact, all of Jeremy and all of Jeremy's life ... flows into that tiny hair as it flows outward to be an integral part of Jeremy's face, most distant organs and all the rest of Jeremy.
We might also say that the little hair holds the heart and smallest toes on his distant foot.
We might also say that all of Jeremy flows into and is fully contained and expressed in every single hair, and each tiny hair flows to contain and be all of Jeremy. The hair is Jeremy thru and thru, not just as a part, but as Jeremy The Whole. In fact, all of Jeremy, all of his life, all the Universe and all of Time and Space are held, fully expressed and are nothing but that one hair. That tiny hair truly speads out to encompass all, and all is held within. There is no two.
It would be the same if your nose, your brain, any single cell of your heart, your breath ... any aspect of "Jeremy" became conscious and said "I am me".
Something like that. That hair might resist, and feel it is just "a single part of Jeremy". But it is Jeremy and the whole of reality, as is all the rest.
And more than a thing, nouns, truly a verb: Jeremying!
In fact, I had to write this real quick as I run out the door for my annual checkup where I will be poked and prodded to see if all the "Jundo Parts" which are Jundo are functioning up to spec.
Yes, it is kinda intellectual, but more vitally, is meant to be intimately experienced and tasted as the hard borders of "self" become soft, permeable and sometimes fully drop away in Zazen.
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 06-04-2015, 04:13 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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... each thing is intimately connected to every other thing, each thing is an expression of the interdependence of everything else, the whole universe is an expression of each individual thing, and each thing is exactly itself. In other words: everything is interdependent; you are just the universe expressing itself; your actions have infinite impact; and each thing is simply itself, you are you.
Zazen certainly gives a "taste of this" and lately I seem to be feeling a strong temporal flavor of interdependence....perhaps it's a consequence of getting older.
Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW
Sat2dayComment
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Mr Moustache says "Delighted to make your acquaintance, Jundo" (he's very polite), and so do I. Thank you
I can't honestly say that I can get this Hua-yen stuff into my head, but I can ask what kind of a mind would allow it in.
When the intra-identity stuff is read with a soft, pliable mind, the result is an amorphousness taking shape then reverting to amorphousness and back again. The rhythm of the universe. Perhaps.
Then I look out of the window and all's right with the world. Phew!
Gassho,
Jeremy
Sat TodayComment
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Hello,
My name's Ian and I'm new to Treeleaf so I'm a bit late to be joining you in your discussion of The Grass Hut, but I listened to a Dharma talk given by Ben Connelly that was posted on the Dharma Field website. Perhaps this link has already been posted, but I thought it was an interesting talk.
http://www.dharmafield.org/Audio/Audio_Online/Talks_for_Members/Guest_Talks/G174%20Inside%20the%20Grass%20Hut.mp3
Take care!
Gassho
Ian
Sat today日々是好日/Everyday is a good day.Comment
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Hello, all,
Just joined the book club and have started reading Inside the Grass Hut, playing catch-up. It's lovely. I appreciate all of the wisdom I'm seeing in your discussions.
L.
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One of the issues this thread has raised for me is the question of whether some schools of Buddhism can be characterised as varieties of mysticism. I've just checked Paul Williams on Hua-yen in "Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations" and it's very interesting:
Now it makes sense! Being a mere wordling, it's no wonder I can't get this Hua-yen stuff into my headHuayan thought is, perhaps, less philosophy than the systematic explanation of the dharmadhatu, the world of visionary experience and magic...
...The Gandavyuha Sutra (a chapter of the Flower Garland Sutra) views the world not from the point of view of ontology but from inside the Buddha’s – or an advanced Bodhisattva’s – experience. As such, the world of the Gandavyuha is one of magic and the visionary (Beyer 1977). It is a world where things happen at a distance through working on one’s own mind simply because things lack intrinsic existence and therefore (it is urged) lack concrete difference. Or, put another way (a way which may be philosophically different, but is not different for the sutra), things happen at a distance according to the Bodhisattva’s will, or he can pass through walls, because there is no real distance, no mural hardness, since all is a continuum of consciousness. This is experienced through meditation. The world of the Avatamsaka (Flower Garland) Sutra, the world of the Buddha, is a world of vision, of magic, of miracle.
Gassho,
Jeremy
Will be sitting this eveningComment
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Hi Jeremy,One of the issues this thread has raised for me is the question of whether some schools of Buddhism can be characterised as varieties of mysticism. I've just checked Paul Williams on Hua-yen in "Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations" and it's very interesting:
Now it makes sense! Being a mere wordling, it's no wonder I can't get this Hua-yen stuff into my head
Gassho,
Jeremy
Will be sitting this evening
The Huayen/Flower Garland Sutra itself is a very fantasy filled, sometimes very silly and extreme piece (also VERY long ... it took me half a year to read at a few pages a day). Yes, lots of magic and hocus pocus. However, the Huayen School of Buddhist Philosophers who were inspired by it were a much more serious, well presented and profound exposition of these views. In fact, I would say that they were only inspired by the Sutra as a starting point. Here is a wonderful book about the Huayen School if you are interested in going further.
Here is a pretty good summary of some of their views ...
But let me take a quick stab:
Imagine the fingers on your hand as individuals. They are each convinced that they are separate individuals. However, every once in awhile, that sense may soften and they may come to identify themselves as the hand (For example, they may come to feel that there body encompasses the whole hand). Then they might sense that the other seemingly separate "finger" individuals are just who they are too. For the others are the hand, and you are the hand ... so the others are you.
Carry this forward to all of reality, and everything in it, and you may get a sense!
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 06-06-2015, 11:23 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Thanks Jundo
Very interesting stuff! I will follow up on reading about Hua-Yen Buddhism. I've just started reading the summary you referenced and it's good food for thought. Just a short quote from early on:
The first part brings Einstein's theory of General Relativity to mind, where mass and spacetime continuously shape and move one another. Going down this path of finding parallels with science, the last sentence brings elements of quantum theory to mind, where particles literally continuously appear out of nowhere and disappear in less than the blink of an eye. Or as Myosha said earlier in this thread, that's "Life as it is".For the Mahayana Buddhists, there is no fixed stage upon which the cosmic drama is enacted because the entire cosmos is permeated by a continuity of alterations. Or we could say that the stage is itself a character in the play.... Existence is therefore best characterised not by 'being' but 'becoming'.
Absolutely. Even though you talk of fingers, it's not fingers that matterCarry this forward to all of reality, and everything in it, and you may get a sense!
Gassho
Jeremy
Sat TodayLast edited by Guest; 06-06-2015, 07:20 PM.Comment
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Much gratitude coming your way, Jundo, for your additions of interpenetration and interidentity. I'll have to study my Dogen more closely because I'm sure he talks about the former if not exactly the alter. Thank you for your enhancements. Every needle on every pine bough in the Forest not-so-suddenly bursts with no brilliance.
^^ForestSatToday^^ Forestweller/CatherineSComment
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I've always been partial to Jundo's "butterfly sermon"Hi Jeremy,
The Huayen/Flower Garland Sutra itself is a very fantasy filled, sometimes very silly and extreme piece (also VERY long ... it took me half a year to read at a few pages a day). Yes, lots of magic and hocus pocus. However, the Huayen School of Buddhist Philosophers who were inspired by it were a much more serious, well presented and profound exposition of these views. In fact, I would say that they were only inspired by the Sutra as a starting point. Here is a wonderful book about the Huayen School if you are interested in going further.
Here is a pretty good summary of some of their views ...
But let me take a quick stab:
Imagine the fingers on your hand as individuals. They are each convinced that they are separate individuals. However, every once in awhile, that sense may soften and they may come to identify themselves as the hand (For example, they may come to feel that there body encompasses the whole hand). Then they might sense that the other seemingly separate "finger" individuals are just who they are too. For the others are the hand, and you are the hand ... so the others are you.
Carry this forward to all of reality, and everything in it, and you may get a sense!
Gassho, J For some reason that metaphor in particular "clicks" for me (hence why I have it bookmarked!)
-satTodayThanks,
Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.Comment
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Thanks Ian. I listened to this yesterday and enjoyed it very much. I'd swear at one point Ben called Hua Yen Buddhism "Hawaiian Buddhism" (don't they make skirts out of grass, not huts?) - probably just a case of English ears listening to an American voiceHello,
My name's Ian and I'm new to Treeleaf so I'm a bit late to be joining you in your discussion of The Grass Hut, but I listened to a Dharma talk given by Ben Connelly that was posted on the Dharma Field website. Perhaps this link has already been posted, but I thought it was an interesting talk.
Thanks Matt. Butterflies, hairs, fingers, golden lions. All are Buddha natureI've always been partial to Jundo's "butterfly sermon" For some reason that metaphor in particular "clicks" for me (hence why I have it bookmarked!)
Gassho,
Jeremy
Will sit laterLast edited by Guest; 06-08-2015, 07:50 AM.Comment
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Thank you, Jundo and Kaishin!I've always been partial to Jundo's "butterfly sermon" For some reason that metaphor in particular "clicks" for me (hence why I have it bookmarked!)
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ll=1#post86307
The butterfly reminds me a bit of Terry Pratchett, while being more elegant than a turtle in space.
I like the butterfly sermon a lot.
Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday治 Ji
花 KaComment
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