Grass Hut - 11 - Places Worldy People Live, He Doesn't Live

[Jundo]

Hello,

This week, we retreat to Chapter 7 ... "Retreat and Living in the World/Places Worldy People Live, He Doesn't Live".

A few seeds for discussion (just pick up the ones you wish) ...

Do you believe in the value of "taking off" by yourself now and then, to the mountains and your own "grass hut"? Are you able to, once in awhile? It is not physically or otherwise possible for people as much as they might wish.

Do you believe it would have value in your Zen Practice to join a longer Retreat or Sesshin now and then? I mentioned a few week ago here in the bookclub why I recommend annual Sesshin for folks ---IF--- possible.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13327-Grass-Hut-4-After-Eating-I-Relax-The-Middle-Way&p=151546&viewfull=1#post151546

Could you see the value of your own retreat, or of you own sitting even a moment of Zazen, as having value for others and the whole world?

Has your Zen Practice, and your time at "All Of Life Is Our Temple" Treeleaf, helped you find "retreat" right in the heart of the hustle and bustle of the busiest town and your daily life?

Some of the many translations of the Ryokan's poems, a man much like Sekito centuries' earlier.

Too lazy to be ambitious,
I let the world take care of itself.
Ten days' worth of rice in my bag;
a bundle of twigs by the fireplace.
Why chatter about delusion and enlightenment?
Listening to the night rain on my roof,
I sit comfortably, with both legs stretched out.

I suppose the one by Kazuaki Tanahashi Sensei is very approachable ...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=ryokan%20poems

Gassho, J

[Kyotai]

"Retreat and Living in the World/Places Worldly People Live, He Doesn't Live"

I believe that is not limited to a grass hut. Retreating to the moment, when taking the kids to swimming lessons, or opening a jar of peanut butter. To me, that is where many worldly people do not live..in the everyday moments they are missing out on..

Although I have never done so, a retreat of any length I feel would be of benefit to my practice, not required, but beneficial.

Gassho, Kyotai
sat today (and while opening peanut butter)

[Mp]

Hello everyone,

Do you believe in the value of "taking off" by yourself now and then, to the mountains and your own "grass hut"?

Yes. I feel it is important to "recharge" ourselves. We all have different levels of what we can do and can manage, knowing those boundaries I feel is important. So when we are feeling "burnt out" or "overworked" take sometime, do some zazen, get outside and enjoy nature, read a book with a nice cup of tea, or whatever makes you happy and gives you that moment of relaxation.

Do you believe it would have value in your Zen Practice to join a longer Retreat or Sesshin now and then?

Yes. Spending time by oneself is important, but it is also important to connect and share with others. Sitting in a retreat with others is a wonderful way to support each other in our practice(s) - even when we are just sitting, we are supporting each other or when we are cleaning and cooking, we are supporting each other. One of the things that I have found to be very important about doing retreats with others is that support and motivation. I have found that in those moments of struggle when we need that loving "push", having the Sangha there is a huge help in guiding us through that transition. =)

Could you see the value of your own retreat, or of you own sitting even a moment of Zazen, as having value for others and the whole world?

Yes. Whether a retreat or a moment of zazen when I take those times to just be with life, to be with ALL aspects of life, I am not only benefiting myself by opening my heart and mind, but I am opening my heart and mind to the world around me. Then when I am in the world I can be more patient to the person that cut me off; to the co-worker or boss who is never happy with my work. To be aware of the love and support my family provides me day after day, or to be accepting of myself when my body or mind is not working the way it used to - embracing ALL conditions of life.

Has your Zen Practice, and your time at "All Of Life Is Our Temple" Treeleaf, helped you find "retreat" right in the heart of the hustle and bustle of the busiest town and your daily life?

Again, Yes! This life, right here and right now is the best retreat we/I could ask for. It encompasses ALL of the above ... it allows for "Taking off by yourself", it allows for "Sesshin with other Sangha members", it allows for your "Own Retreat and moments of Zazen" - all right here, right now ... at any and every moment. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[RichardH]

Do you believe in the value of "taking off" by yourself now and then, to the mountains and your own "grass hut"? Are you able to, once in awhile? It is not physically or otherwise possible for people as much as they might wish.

Yes, definitely. Time to give the senses a break, to give responsibilities a break, to give interactions a break. Sitting, walking, hearing, seeing. A walk in the woods, paddling in a canoe, sitting Zazen in a quiet, simple, room.

Do you believe it would have value in your Zen Practice to join a longer Retreat or Sesshin now and then? I mentioned a few week ago here in the bookclub why I recommend annual Sesshin for folks ---IF--- possible.

Yes, definitely. As above but with structure and discipline, one stone for one bird.

Could you see the value of your own retreat, or of you own sitting even a moment of Zazen, as having value for others and the whole world?

Yes. I can be a burden or a relief to others, compound their suffering or help transform it, depending what is going on here.

Has your Zen Practice, and your time at "All Of Life Is Our Temple" Treeleaf, helped you find "retreat" right in the heart of the hustle and bustle of the busiest town and your daily life?

Yes. Treeleaf is a jewel.

Gassho

Daizan

sat today

[Jishin]

Hello,

Shingen says it well. Nothing to add.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Daiyo]

Hello,
Do you believe in the value of "taking off" by yourself now and then, to the mountains and your own "grass hut"? Are you able to, once in awhile? It is not physically or otherwise possible for people as much as they might wish.

Do you believe it would have value in your Zen Practice to join a longer Retreat or Sesshin now and then? I mentioned a few week ago here in the bookclub why I recommend annual Sesshin for folks ---IF--- possible.

Could you see the value of your own retreat, or of you own sitting even a moment of Zazen, as having value for others and the whole world?

Has your Zen Practice, and your time at "All Of Life Is Our Temple" Treeleaf, helped you find "retreat" right in the heart of the hustle and bustle of the busiest town and your daily life?


Gassho, J

-Yes I believe in the value of retreating, but still couldn't do it since I started practising.

-I can not see how my sitting could be of benefit to others, provided that zazen yields no benefits.

-I couldn't find "retreat" amidst my daily life.

Lately I've been unable to avoid a feeling of separation between the "me" that sits zazen and the "me" that does everything else.
Like the only sacred moment was when I sit zazen.
I am absolutely unable to see through all the greed, ignorance and anger with which I go through the day.
And one of the questions I've found myself asking was:

If everything is perfect as it is, while should I bother to be better at anything?
Why loose weight, drink less, avoid meat, be more compassionate... why sit at all?
If there's nothing to attain, no enlightenment, if I should drop all expectations, because everything is just fine, why just not give up to a pleasant life only taking care of not getting attached to things?

Sorry, but these days I'm always questioning the value of my practice. Is it really good for anything?
If, as master Sawaki says, it is good for nothing, why not using the time in zazen for something that is good for someone or something?

Gassho,
Daiyo

#sattoday

[Jundo]

If everything is perfect as it is, while should I bother to be better at anything?
Why loose weight, drink less, avoid meat, be more compassionate... why sit at all?
If there's nothing to attain, no enlightenment, if I should drop all expectations, because everything is just fine, why just not give up to a pleasant life only taking care of not getting attached to things?

Yes, there is nothing in need of change. And unless you change, realize and live such in life, that truth will be obscured.

Sorry, but these days I'm always questioning the value of my practice. Is it really good for anything?
If, as master Sawaki says, it is good for nothing, why not using the time in zazen for something that is good for someone or something?

Who said Zazen is good for nothing? There is a Big Payoff! The way to realize this Big Payoff, however, is to sit Zazen which is good for nothing, with nothing to seek, no payoff, nothing to change and nothing more needed.

All through life, people are chasing the payoff ... thus missing the gold in hand. Kinda like this guy ...



Better said, it is like climbing a mountain, trying to get to the mountain, all while not realizing that the mountain is ever underfoot and is in each step of the climb.

Goodnight (my bedtime)

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Joyo]

Better said, it is like climbing a mountain, trying to get to the mountain, all while not realizing that the mountain is ever underfoot and is in each step of the climb.

Goodnight (my bedtime)

Gassho, J

SatToday

Thank you for this, Jundo. May I just add, some of those steps up the mountain will make you so angry you will want to cry tears of frustration. Some steps so happy you won't want to go any further up the mountain. Some steps so painful, some so beautiful.....yet they are all the mountain, one step at a time.

Good night, Jundo.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Joyo]

Sorry, but these days I'm always questioning the value of my practice. Is it really good for anything?
If, as master Sawaki says, it is good for nothing, why not using the time in zazen for something that is good for someone or something?

Gassho,
Daiyo

#sattoday

Hello Daiyo, may I ask, what are you searching for?

I've seen people practice spiritual paths very different from zazen, paths that promise them all sorts of things from happiness, health, healing....yet they do not have any of these things.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jika]

Joyo,
if I may ask, your question is confusing to me.
Is not the end of suffering for all beings (transcending but not excluding) happiness, health, healing? Amidst and in the mud of sadness, illness and pain?

I was thinking about how I sometimes crave my favourite places of quietness and solitude when people and the world overwhelm me.
I dream myself away into a nice retreat, suffering because there are no means.
Last year I had the thought for the first time, that it is better for me to carry this known feeling around, than to longingly dream of "one day I will be there again".

Daiyo, please don't be so hard on yourself.
And don't expect wonders only because you diligently put your butt on a cushion.
But try carrying the zazen-mind through your day, gently.
It will allow you to enjoy your meals, I'm sure, but it might be helpful in feeling more connected.
Keep it up!

Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday

[Kyotai]

I use to find myself in your shoes from time to time. But, after stopping for a few days or even weeks. I always return to the cushion when my mind would fill up with intruding thoughts and anxieties again. Rediscovering all over again why i sit. I've gone through that cycle many times. Always needing to return.

What Joyo said, some steps painful, some beautiful...

But important steps nonetheless.

For me, zazen opens up a world of opportunities to help others even in simple moments. It is far more valuable then the 30 minutes I take each day to sit.

Gassho, Kyotai
Sat today

[Joyo]

HI Danny B, I am unsure why you find my question confusing. I meant it literally, not trying to be all spiritually deep or anything, so I think it's a fairly simple question. I agree that Daiyo should not be so hard on himself and I sincerely hope he will find a way to make that happen.

As for the rest of your questions, I am not really comfortable answering them as I think someone like Jundo, or one of the priests would have more insight.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Meishin]

Hi,

Has your Zen Practice, and your time at "All Of Life Is Our Temple" Treeleaf, helped you find "retreat" right in the heart of the hustle and bustle of the busiest town and your daily life?

Well apparently. Last week every computer we use in our psych practice went belly-up. (Storm-related?) I spent hours with a techie determining if we could at least save the data (we could). The episode virtually shut us down, and we are now recovering. Of course there were times when I went ballistic. But they were short-lived. What I noticed was that I really enjoyed joking around with the techie, felt I got to know him well, and put aside the sense of "this is the end of the world." That was different. In times past I would have been all business. This time it was just so much lighter. Big problem, but not big problem. Probably because of the way I acted, people were going out of their way to help. They stayed late, came up with unique fixes, and they also abandoned that business-only approach. It's still a hassle, will take at least another week to get back. Cost some money. But I have not catastrophized as I have in other times.

The episode also reinforced the real-life teaching that it's all transient. Nothing lasts. Particularly PCs.

Gassho
Meishin
Sat today

[Joyo]

Hi again Danny, I thought about your remark as to my question being confusing. I guess, for me, this is a practical question that we all can ask ourselves. So if someone is not happy with some area of their life or questioning whether this practice has any value, then I think it's a good question to ask yourself. Speaking from experience, if I have felt like something has no value, or I am discontent, I take a step back and look at it from the large picture. Am I putting too many expectations on myself, am I being to critical of myself or others, do I need to do something else to change (like perhaps is Daiyo is thinking it has no value, what about doing some volunteer work or some such thing to put the practice into well.....practice =) And sometimes, a change is really necessary, other times I need to work on acceptance, which can take a very long time

Anyway, that's about all I meant by the question. I hope that clears it up for you.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jika]

Thank you, Joyo,
for giving my confusion so much thought.
I see your practical reasons now.
I think I'll sit with my confusion and why I find the Teachings so promising without promise .

Meishin, thumbs up!

Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday