Grass Hut - 4 - After Eating I Relax / The Middle Way

[Jundo]

Hi,

We move on to the first section of Chapter 2 (After Eating I Relax / The Middle Way) ...

A possible seed for discussion is "What is your 'Middle Way', and how is the 'Middle Way' important in your life?"

Also, can one live a life of "retreat without retreating?"

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Joyo]

Thank you, Jundo. And got it, second chapter, first section only

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Kyotai]

Going to the second question. "Can one retreat without retreating.."

I believe it is beneficial for one to take a formal retreat once or twice a year if one has the means to do so but I don't think it is necessary to your practice.

We sit zazen each day, and then go about our busy lives. Slowly learning that each moment is zazen, not just on the cushion, but waiting in line at the grocery store, putting the garbage on the curb or dropping kids off at school and daycare. Taking a few mindful breaths. I think each moment can be ones retreat. Though, the author does state "zen meditation retreats has opened up a realm of life and ease I did not realize was possible" Perhaps I should not discount formal retreats and check one out for myself..

The middle way for me has always been about not too much, not too little. Alcohol consumption, diet, sitting practice, or perhaps even my parenting. I think taking a balanced approached has always delivered the best outcome. I am not so good at taking a balanced approach when it comes to technology.

Gassho, Kyotai
sat today

[Jundo]

Going to the second question. "Can one retreat without retreating.."

I believe it is beneficial for one to take a formal retreat once or twice a year if one has the means to do so but I don't think it is necessary to your practice.

We sit zazen each day, and then go about our busy lives. Slowly learning that each moment is zazen, not just on the cushion, but waiting in line at the grocery store, putting the garbage on the curb or dropping kids off at school and daycare. Taking a few mindful breaths. I think each moment can be ones retreat. Though, the author does state "zen meditation retreats has opened up a realm of life and ease I did not realize was possible" Perhaps I should not discount formal retreats and check one out for myself..

Much Wisdom in what you write here.

Just for reference for those new to our Community, here is my usual guidance on attending Sesshin/Retreats if one can:

=====================

While here we encourage daily sitting of but a few minutes a day (if meeting each instant of sitting as an expression of All-Time and Being) ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9281-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-XXI%29

... we also request, if at all possible, that folks join in with a group one longer residential "Sesshin" per year of from 3 to 7 days eacy year.

Yes, there is a time to sit long, there is a time to sit short ... but most vital is to always sit beyond and right through "long vs short". Sit longly short, and shortly long ... softly hard and hardly soft.

For all folks (who can) or at some times, it is good to sit sometimes behind monastery walls away from the day to day. For all of us, one can sit day to day beyond all thought of "inside vs. out", "in or away" ... knocking down the walls between the ears. Long or short, here or there ... always sit free of "Gaining" mind.

Let me mention that I strongly encourage folks ... if you can find the time ... to go for retreats for a weekend, but better a few days or full Sesshin (even a full week or two if you can) at places, and "traditional" (i.e., very Japanese style) retreats and Sesshin are good experiences. There are several good places to experience that in North America and Europe, and it is good to be in a place where one can rub shoulders with others, living together for a few days. If someone can't go to a bricks and mortar location for such a retreat, we have our Annual "All Online" two-day Retreat too (each December, via live netcast) at Treeleaf Sangha ... traditional (yet "fully online" ... and available to sit any timeless, all year round) ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/with-jundo-and-taigu/archives/2011/12/-welcome-toour-treeleafat.html

... but this is a case where it is actually good to go to a retreat center and practice with folks for a time (if at all possible ... which it ain't for everybody).

I strongly encourage folks to go for retreats for intensive sittings, Sesshin, of many days ... even a week or two or longer ... waking early in the morning, sitting late into the evening. All Zen Teachers that I know do. Why? I usually write this:

Now, someone might ask too, "if each moment is all time and space, and Zazen is 'good for nothing', what is the purpose of an intensive Sesshin?" Well, I often say that, sometimes, we need to practice a bit long and hard, morning to night ... sitting and wrestling with 'me, my self and I' ... all to achieve nothing to attain, and taste the good of 'good for nothing'! Going to Retreats, Sesshin and such is a powerful facet of this Practice and not to be missed.

At most Zen Sesshin I know, folks sit many times a day, for 30, 40 or 45 minutes at a time, two or three times back to back, in many sets each day. Most intersperse work periods, lecture periods, eating periods, break periods, sleep period, chanting periods ... but all are one, continuous flowing Zazen in its wider meaning. Most still have lots and lots of sitting on the Zafu sitting (especially in Soto Zen).

It is really not a matter of long or short, start or finish ... and thus it is very good to sometimes sit long. I truly recommend it as integral to this Practice. We sit long and hard sometimes because it truly is not a matter of quantity or the clock or anything to gain!

Strange, huh!?

It is also not a matter of place ... and we should "sit Zazen" too in the hospital bed, death bed, nursery room, grocery line, city bus. Nonetheless, we go to the Retreat at the Zen Center or temple or monastery to sit in a room on a Zafu, precisely because it is not a matter of "where" or "place."

Strange, huh!?

However, if people can't go to a Sesshin because of a physical limitation or other impossibility, that is okay too! If really it is not possible, sit right where one is (or if in that hospital bed, have one's sesshin reclining right there!)

Strange, huh!?

If one sits with greed and desire to attain, than it does not matter if it is 5 seconds or 50 hours or 5000 years ... a waste of time.

If one sits free of greed and desire to attain, than a second is a second of Buddha, 5000 years just 5000 years of Buddha.

This we sit each day ... beyond and right through-and-through the ticking clock. If done with greed, 50 minutes 14 times a day is much too long and much too short AT ONCE! ... what Sawaki Roshi called "sitting with a thief's mind".

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Daiyo]

Hi all,

Regarding the first question I'd say that I'm still discovering what is the Middle Way for me. I know I have changed a lot of things and reduced many of my "needs".
However I think I still have a lot to do, reduce even more the comsumption of meat and alcohol with which I keep being self indulgent.
About "living a life of retreat without retreating" I think it is possible, although very difficult because most of us live in environments and interact with people not interested or related in any way to our practice. So it is extremely difficult to be all day mindful, say gathas, etc. It's kind of separating from the "normal" way of life in our society.
That's why I think the experience of a retreat is very valuable. I had the will to participate in several opportunities, but one way or another, "common life" (working, parenting, family, volunteering, etc.) agenda got in the way.
I've made it one of my priorities for this year, but so far two sesshins have been held in the local zendo, and I couldn't attend. The same with our winter retreat.
Bad luck?

Gassho,
Daiyo

#SatToday

P.S.: Do you consider right putting others' needs above one's practice needs? I do, but perhaps I'm wrong and we should put practice (retreating, zazenkai, etc.) above everything else. What do you think?

[Byrne]

The things I'm most afraid of. The things I desire the most that I don't have. Is there anything that cuts through the center of those two more effectively than life as is?

Gassho

Sat Today

[Roland]

Grass Hut - 4 - After Eating I Relax / The Middle Way

I have doubts about long retreats and monasteries. My fear is that one will end up very vulnerable to suggestion, living in a highly artificial situation. I think the boundaries between cults and 'good' practice are thin and can be crossed even unintentionally. Not crossing them is part of the Middle Way, I guess.

#SatToday
Roland

[Kyotai]

"Artificial situation.." ?

Gassho, Kyotai
Sat today

[Jundo]

I have doubts about long retreats and monasteries. My fear is that one will end up very vulnerable to suggestion, living in a highly artificial situation. I think the boundaries between cults and 'good' practice are thin and can be crossed even unintentionally. Not crossing them is part of the Middle Way, I guess.

#SatToday
Roland

Most Zen groups holding retreats and Sesshin and wholesome and good, no cult activity.

There are exceptions, like in anything (a couple of very bad groups in Europe for example), but the few bad apples are far outnumbered by the hundreds of sincere, good, dedicated folks. Unfortunately, the couple of real pieces of work capture most of the headlines.

Gassho, Jundo

[Rich]

Roland, maybe you could start with a 1 day or 3 day retreat either online or at a Zen center. Just to experience it. I don't have a lot of retreat experience but sitting has never been like living an artificial experience. Quite the opposite, the more I sit the more real and natural it seems.

Sat today

[Mp]

Roland, maybe you could start with a 1 day or 3 day retreat either online or at a Zen center. Just to experience it.

Hello Roland,

I agree with Rich here ... that was the first exposure I had was a 1 day retreat on a Saturday. We sat, talked about a specific topic on the Dharma, had discussion ... was a very rewarding experience. Keep an open heart and mind and you will do just fine. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday

[Roland]

Grass Hut - 4 - After Eating I Relax / The Middle Way

Thank you for the reaction and advice... I'll start with a more modest retreat (one or two days) and will do so with an open heart and mind.

Gassho

Roland

#SatToday

[Jishin]

Hi,

When I am hitting on all cylinders my middle way is to be at ease expressing my all or nothing tendencies. 20 plus patients per day, being on call 24/7 since I work alone, go go go with kids play and discipline, not annoying my wife too much with my weirdness, play with animals (I have a hoard of them), a moderate neglect of house chores, etc. etc. This is my middle way. Smoking dope and ordering delivery pizzas all day long may be someones middle way as long as no one gets hurt (sounds like a cool middle way to me).

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Shoka]

Hi,

I agree with Ben on the idea of retreat. For me the purpose of retreating is to create a space where you can practice being at ease and acting the way you would hope to act all the time. The one example that he gives of stopping when you are mad and retreating to a walk is a great example. If we didn't take the moment to walk away from a fight, because we didn't want to retreat from "real life", then we won't be able to calm down and act the way we want when we come back to that conversation.

During longer retreats in monasteries or our own homes, I think you can realize things that you would have never seen during the course of a normal day. During last year's Rohatsu Retreat I was shocked by how much my mind talked. I had specifically set-up the weekend so I didn't have anything to worry about, no where to go and responsibilities taken care of ahead of time. That way I didn't need to plan or worry, I could just be for a couple days. But it was amazing how hard my mind worked to try to engage me in following all the crazy thoughts. I would like to think that through daily meditation I would have eventually come to the same conclusion; but the retreat allowed it to be stark and so apparent that it couldn't be ignored.

I believe that retreat is important to give us an opportunity to lift ourselves out of the mock for a while. It makes it easier to see through that same stuff when you are back in it. But if you were always just wading around in the mock you won't know it wasn't clear.

Gassho,

Shoka
sattoday

[KellyRok]

Hello all,

My middle way, hmmm...it sounds odd, but my middle way involves having a schedule. A few parts from this section really resonated with me:

There is a discipline to ease; Shitou's having a nap.

and:

There is a day-to-day discipline of taking care of this body and a day-to-day discipline of getting to the cushion to meditate.

The best way for me have this discipline is to set an allotted time for things if I find I'm leaning toward too much of one thing or another. I must get so many things/tasks completed before I get on the computer. I must sit zazen before I crack open and get lost in that book. I must make sure I eat healthy meals and snacks for 4 days before I can cheat a little and have something sweet. These are just examples mind you, but I find it helps me.

But you must also be disciplined enough so that if something happens (sick child, car breaks down, or you have to move to a whole other part of the country) that it doesn't completely throw you off that carefully planned balance. You must be able to "be at ease" even when everything is out of your control. I'm still working toward this .

Can you retreat without retreating? Sure, you can! It is a matter of perspective and intent. You can have a truly amazing, peaceful, and illuminating retreat anytime and anywhere. I know that I've truly enjoyed our 2-day Rohatsu retreat. Sitting in my room or on the porch with the door open, yet still in silence and with reverence - can be just as powerful as sitting in a room with strangers. I haven't had the opportunity to go to a center and have an extended retreat with others in the same room. But that's okay for now.

Gassho,
Kelly/Jinmei
sattoday