9/7 - Opening Pandora's Box p.53

[Jundo]

Hi,

Well, interest in the book seems to have dropped a bit. Let's see if Opening Pandora's Box will help ...

Gassho, Jundo

[Gregor]

This chapter really spoke to me. . .perhaps the best so far in the book. I found a lot of motivation from it, fire I needed to take the next step.

I'm not sure if I'm in the middle of "opening the box" as Joko discusses, but I can relate to the gradual breaking down of the wall she describes, its a very real process in my practice.

I am trying not be analytical about my time on the cushion, but I do gain new perspectives and uncover some of my past conditioning through doing the practice. My problem is that I'm not putting in enough effort.

I've been feeling run down quite a lot lately and have had trouble getting myself out of bed in time to sit most mornings. I know that I need to "pay the price" and hope this resistance will continue to break down over time. . .but I cannot help but feeling like I've lost some of the passion for practice. I have an easier time sitting at night, I think I've built a good habit out of it, but I need to shape my life in a way where I have more energy not just for Zazen but other things that need doing. Joko makes a great point in saying "the quality of our practice is reflected in the quality of our life". I suppose proper diet, exercise, and adequate sleep are all important steps in having the drive for practice and life. So i identify with the notion that practice does not necessarily make for an easier, more peaceful life but its part of living a life of purpose.

[paige]

I cannot help but feeling like I've lost some of the passion for practice.

Hi,

I'm not sure if that's really a negative thing. I've seen a lot of self-help and relationship books about "keeping passion alive," but I think that it is of the nature to fade over time. We're not supposed to admit it, but keeping up a long-term relationship (with a spouse, friend, relative, etc) can really be a chore sometimes.

What did Joko say?

It doesn't suit me! It doesn't give me what I want! I want life to be nice to me!

I'm not sure how far it's reasonable to stretch the analogy between zazen practice and inter-personal relationships (though Jundo's already and unmonkishly, compared it to sex!), but is anyone lucky enough to have their reality live up to their expectations?

A couple of years ago, there was a commercial for... something(?) that showed a guy ranting about the future not being as cool as Tomorrowland, etc had envisioned. "Where are my flying cars? I was promised flying cars!" I think that there's a stage in meditation practice that's very much like that. I think that nearly everyone expects meditation to bring joy, or bliss or peace into their lives (an expectation that instructors might capitalise on). But it just doesn't work that way. Which is probably good - if we were to spend all our time dwelling in a state of absolute bliss, we'd probably be subjected to a 'pee test' several times a week to determine what we'd been smoking!

[cdshrack]

As Ben Harper says,

"The less you expect, the more you'll be pleased."

the song Less off of Burn to Shine - some fantastic lyrics, and though he's referring to himself (which makes the song very funny), take a chance to read 'em... Maybe i spent too much time on the Taoist side of it all, but my world is certainly a lot easier when i don't have expectations, and when i AM disappointed with something, i frequently look at the situation and realize it was because i had expectations and they might well have been unrealistic.

I apologize if this is off-topic, i haven't reread the chapter yet, but i'll hopefully comment on it before the week is out.[/url]

[Gregor]

To paraphrase Joko, leading a Zen life is about giving our vows more precedence than we give our ordinary considerations. In other words, a Buddhist life is a life of Right Effort.

I don't think working to maintain passion about practice is a bad step. For me that passion or desire to practice is akin to keeping the beginner's mind strong. Being passionate about practice, is the same as having enthusiasm and direction in my life. I'm at a crossroads right now with a few major things and need to keep my eye leading a purposeful life.

I do agree that being at 100%, at all times is an unreasonable goal. I think the ups and downs are a natural pattern. But, I am trying to be honest with myself about what kind of effort I am putting in, and lately I think it has been lacking, So I'm refocusing on being deliberate with each action. Yes, I will fall short, but far less so than if I have no focus and don't hold myself accountable for my shortcomings.

I understand my perspective may sound more like the "Dhamma Fighting" of the Theravade/Insight schools, but I don't really care if I sound Zen or Not Zen, I just know what works for myself. Right now what works is an objective-less "just sitting" practice, coupled with a bit of tough love.


Sorry I don't mean to sound argumentative, or even offer a rebuttal just trying to describe where I am at right now. A lot of this has to do with the practicalities of my life right now and the tasks at hand --- paying off debt, starting nursing school, being more active, etcetera. Just a naturally lazy guy cracking the whip of compassion on himself.

much metta,

Greg

[cdshrack]

Having now read the chapter, the one part that was really right on for me was right at the end - paraphrased roughly as realizing that we're all messed up, we're all struggling, though with different parts of it. That was a big breakthrough for me, once upon a time, and still is sometimes. Realizing that we're all just doing the best we can.

This relates to the previous chapter (i think it was in there) for me - about forgiving ourselves. It was back there sometime, i'm sure - accepting that we have always been and always will be human. One of the people I respect most once gave me the compliment of appreciating my abiltity to forgive myself - which I don't always do exceptionally well - and it made me make a stronger effort to continue to do so.

I think the key on that one, to echo Gregor, is Right Effort. Much easier to forgive yourself if you were a) making an effort, and b) doing your best, which isn't always your ABSOLUTE best, but the best you can do right then with all the other stuff whirling around in your personal samsara.

So cheers, Gregor - sounds like you're headed in positive directions, seeking to make a Right Effort, nursing sounds like a Right Livelihood, and i see some Right Speech and whatever else (i find it forgiveable in myself to not run through all of 'em).

Gassho,
cd

[Bansho]

Hi everyone,

One of the more notable things which has changed in my life through my practice is how I’ve come to perceive thinking and sensations. They‘ve somehow become suspect. No, not in the sense that they’re unreal, but I simply don’t attach as much weight to them as I used to. Nothing dramatic. They’re wonderful and necessary for our lives, but they don’t constitute our entire lives. It’s not really knowledge (although I suppose I’ve read argumentation along those lines before in one form or another), but more so a matter of seeing. As such, it’s not something I can simply forget and I think in that sense I’ve opened Pandora’s box. Theres no going back. Of course, 'seeing' isn’t an end in and of itself, it must manifest itself in my behavior. In relation to my Zazen, it means I simply do it every day whether I want to or don’t want to, whether I’m tired or anxious, whether it’s to hot or too cold, etc. I recognize these thoughts and feelings in myself and they’re OK, but I don’t let them affect my behavior. However, if I had to miss a day of Zazen – and I’m sure that will be the case sooner or later – that would be OK too. Recently my wife celebrated her 40th birthday and I told her I wouldn’t sit that day, but rather just be there for her and not get in the way of any other plans we may have. No big deal. As it turns out, we did have some spare time that day, some of which she wanted for herself, so I was able to sit. Also no big deal.

Gassho
Kenneth

[Justin]

Hello all,

Here are a few of my thoughts & questions after an initial reading.

All of us feel we are separate from life; we feel as if we have a wall around us. That wall may be keeping us out of touch.

Up to here I'm following along easily. Our ego is a wall which prevents us from experiencing the universe as it is, in its oneness and its beautiful impartiality, and instead insists on making us see things as separate from/threatening to our Selves. But then Joko goes somewhere I don't really understand...

We may be anxious, we may have disturbing thoughts, but our wall keeps us unaware of that.

What? I thought my Ego was that which fooled me into thinking that my emotions & thoughts were real. How does my sense of self prevent me from recognizing my emotions or thoughts? Does she perhaps mean that my Ego prevents me from recognizing them as illusory, or is she saying something else?

On another note, I really liked when Joko said

We must be determined that our lives develop a universal context.

It underscores the fact of "interbeing"/oneness/call-it-what-you-want-ness very nicely, I think. We must live in such a way that we benefit all of the universe. Our way is to live for all beings.

Also, Kenneth, I appreciated your phrasing ("thinking and sensations have become suspect"). Very succinct and a reflection of my experiences as well.

Thanks to all for the insightful commentary. I look forward to more.

Gassho.

[Al]

To do Zen practice, we have to desire a certain kind of a life. In traditional terms, it's a life in which our vows override our ordinary personal considerations: we must be determined that our lives develop a universal context and that the lives of others also develop that context.

That was really the crux of the chapter for me. It says that we have to be determined to give up the personal. The promotion of what Joko calls the "universal context" (what I would less eloquently refer to as "accepting there's something bigger than me, my life, or my desires") is a valuable gem at the heart of (almost) all religions.

[Gregor]

Aebaxter,

Yup, you got the crux of it right there. I like your definition of Joko's "universal context", I can see it clearer now. Thanks!

[Gregor]

I think we are getting caught up on semantics here.

There is no danger in "Right Effort", as long as we understand what "Right" refers to.

The word "Right" used in the Noble Eightfold path is the way we translate the pali word, "Samma", which cannot be easily translated. . . but means togetherness, coherence, unity. . . . So the term "Right" means in accord with the eightfold path and the Dharma ( capital d dharma - the nature of all things), it had nothing to do with right vs wrong, good and bad. So, no need to worry about chasing after pie in the sky.

The Noble Eightfold path is merely a means of describing the process that starts with suffering and ends up free of it. Of course intellectual understanding cannot take us very far on it's own.

[Gregor]

Harry,

I do agree. Very appropriate for you to question it, just wanted to throw my perspective into the ring.

-Greg

[Fuken]

BTW, does being free of suffering strike anyone as a realistic concept?

Yes! But it takes quite a bit of effort.

Take Care,
Jordan

[Gregor]

Suffering I think can be overcome, but this does not mean we won't face pain which is a constant and undeniable part of life.

Suffering is created by the resistance to pain. We can train ourselves to let go, and reduce suffering, maybe even eliminate resistance thus eliminating suffering, not something that is very common but I would not say unrealistic.

[Gregor]

Harry,

Don't convert just yet, lol.

You bring up a great point about how Buddhist terminology really does not translate into English so well.

I don't think Dogen was wrong, nor do I think that Right Effort is in contrast with letting go, in fact just sitting effortless/goalless Zazen is Right Effort itself.

I'm probably not "Zen" enough for Dogen Sangha just yet. I've read much more of the Pali Tripitaki than any of Dogen's work, but I think even in the Theravada/Insight perspective with all of its talk of hard practice and Right Effort, the ultimate destination of the path is in letting go, coming to the realization that things are just as they are.

I like to consider the Eightfold Path, as a good tool in leading a Buddhist life, it helps me live with more purpose and direction. Both things that I generally lack, perhaps the fact that I struggle with these things is the very reason I gravitate towards my particular view. Personally, cultivation of the Eightfold path has not been source of suffering or dissatisfaction. It has been an encouraging and helpful perspective, even as I fall short of it.

I suspect from a "Zen" opinion I might have things a little off kilter, but I hope this is no big deal.

take care,

Greg