So, if you think his holding up one finger just means "all things are one", well, you are not wrong, but really you have not even scratched the surface (pun intended).
The POINTER points out that a single speck of dust or a single flower blooming contains and gives rise to the whole world. Gu Tei's finger is just the same. But if we go back before the dust, the flower or the finger, and before the whole world, what is there to see or say?
Some folks think that the point of Zen is only to get to that "before the dust/flower/finger/world" non-place, because everything vanishes there ... all time, you and me, all the troubles of the world. And that is true, and it is vital to have a sense of this non-place. However, if you just stay there ... gee, the party is pretty much dead! It is vital to then know that the non-place IS the dust/flower/finger/world/time/you/me/troubles.
And each contains and is all the others. So, it is like cutting or dyeing a "skein of thread" (like a ball of yarn) ... cut it anywhere, and it is now cut thread. Dye it anywhere and it is now dyed thread. So, in the past, people would dye thread by dipping it all in dye at once, or would cut it with a big saw. But this is a bit more of the "one is all, all in one, all each other" meaning, so that cutting or dyeing even one molecule of the thread truly does it to all the thread.
Then, when you cut off world complications and bring out your family treasure (your wisdom of this "one is all, all in one, all each other" that is the non-place too) your complications will remain (sorry) but you will also find liberation everywhere, high and low, before and after, left and right, in and out.
In the VERSE, the reference to the turtle simile ....
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In the story about Gutei cutting the boy's finger, the original meaning of the Chinese is likely closer to "gave a sharp twist" (not cut off or do actual violence.) The point is, of course, not just to imitate, but to know the true meaning.
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For Dogen, words were not merely the "finger pointing at the moon (truth)" but also the moon pointing at the finger and shining brightly in each and every fingertip.
QUESTION: Is there any place or person or moment in time or happening or whatever not in your own fingertip? How would your express that without Gutei cutting off your finger, drawing blood?
In looking for some musical selection for today, I came across a lot of VERY excellent music about the "middle finger" (one I especially liked by a Scottish band called "Sleeping Giants" and another by "Missio") which however was all, unsurprisingly, a bit too angry for our purposes here.![Eek](https://forum.treeleaf.org/core/images/smilies/eek-new.png)
So, I have gone with this simple tune asking where does the finger not point ... high and low, before and after, left and right, in and out?
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Speaking of fingers and blood, I almost went with this 1949 tune, with a very nice message.
.
Gassho, J
stlah
The POINTER points out that a single speck of dust or a single flower blooming contains and gives rise to the whole world. Gu Tei's finger is just the same. But if we go back before the dust, the flower or the finger, and before the whole world, what is there to see or say?
Some folks think that the point of Zen is only to get to that "before the dust/flower/finger/world" non-place, because everything vanishes there ... all time, you and me, all the troubles of the world. And that is true, and it is vital to have a sense of this non-place. However, if you just stay there ... gee, the party is pretty much dead! It is vital to then know that the non-place IS the dust/flower/finger/world/time/you/me/troubles.
And each contains and is all the others. So, it is like cutting or dyeing a "skein of thread" (like a ball of yarn) ... cut it anywhere, and it is now cut thread. Dye it anywhere and it is now dyed thread. So, in the past, people would dye thread by dipping it all in dye at once, or would cut it with a big saw. But this is a bit more of the "one is all, all in one, all each other" meaning, so that cutting or dyeing even one molecule of the thread truly does it to all the thread.
Then, when you cut off world complications and bring out your family treasure (your wisdom of this "one is all, all in one, all each other" that is the non-place too) your complications will remain (sorry) but you will also find liberation everywhere, high and low, before and after, left and right, in and out.
In the VERSE, the reference to the turtle simile ....
.
Buddha told Ananda,
"Suppose there is a blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the vast ocean. This turtle has a long life. It comes up to the surface of the sea only once in 100 years."
"Then suppose, there happen to be a log floating in the huge ocean. This log has a hole in the center. The size of hole is as small as a neck of the turtle."
Buddha asked Ananda, "Do you think this blind turtle can get to the hole of the floating log in the vast ocean? Turtle's head should be just in the hole of the floating log"
"It's impossible! It cannot happen, my master!" , replied Ananda.
Then Buddha said, "To be born as a human being [sometimes added "able to encounter the Buddhist Teachings"] is actually much more difficult than the possibility of the blind turtle going inside the hole of the floating log. Life is such a precious."
"Suppose there is a blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the vast ocean. This turtle has a long life. It comes up to the surface of the sea only once in 100 years."
"Then suppose, there happen to be a log floating in the huge ocean. This log has a hole in the center. The size of hole is as small as a neck of the turtle."
Buddha asked Ananda, "Do you think this blind turtle can get to the hole of the floating log in the vast ocean? Turtle's head should be just in the hole of the floating log"
"It's impossible! It cannot happen, my master!" , replied Ananda.
Then Buddha said, "To be born as a human being [sometimes added "able to encounter the Buddhist Teachings"] is actually much more difficult than the possibility of the blind turtle going inside the hole of the floating log. Life is such a precious."
.
For Dogen, words were not merely the "finger pointing at the moon (truth)" but also the moon pointing at the finger and shining brightly in each and every fingertip.
QUESTION: Is there any place or person or moment in time or happening or whatever not in your own fingertip? How would your express that without Gutei cutting off your finger, drawing blood?
In looking for some musical selection for today, I came across a lot of VERY excellent music about the "middle finger" (one I especially liked by a Scottish band called "Sleeping Giants" and another by "Missio") which however was all, unsurprisingly, a bit too angry for our purposes here.
![Eek](https://forum.treeleaf.org/core/images/smilies/eek-new.png)
So, I have gone with this simple tune asking where does the finger not point ... high and low, before and after, left and right, in and out?
.
Speaking of fingers and blood, I almost went with this 1949 tune, with a very nice message.
.
Gassho, J
stlah
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