Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 14: The Great Stupa of Abundant Treasures Buddha

**Jundo** · 05-05-2026, 12:13 AM

Might I drop in the section of my book, Zen Master's Dance, which looks at Dogen's marvelous play with this section ...

~~~

Like [John] Coltrane working from the standard songbook, Dogen was working from the “classics,” the basic Buddhist and Mahayana Zen teachings, and rarely left them far behind despite all his creative expression. Dogen’s jazz was not the chaos and cacophony of anarchic free jazz, and he did not throw away the standard Mahayana “songbook” or the basic structure of music theory. Dogen, master of “word jazz” and expresser of the Wordless in words (he believed that a well-chosen phrase could hold Truths of both sound and silence), would take off bending and re-enlivening those old dusty tunes in ways felt in the skin, flesh, bones, and marrow, yet he never forgot the fundamental tune he was playing.

Dogen, for example, frequently wilded and re-wilded passages from the already fantastically wild “Lotus Sutra” into something even more wild-tastical! In one such example, he worked from a famous scene of that Sutra in which a stupa (a traditional pavilion or tower containing the ashes or other relics and treasures of a Buddha or other great Ancestor), in this case thousands of kilometers tall, appears from the ground and rests in the air. Buddha Shakyamuni sees that another Buddha (named Abundant Treasures) is sitting inside, and the two Buddhas share a seat within the tower and preach together. All this is depicted in the Sutra as occurring in the sky over Vulture Peak, the sacred site in India said to be where the Lotus Sutra was being preached (a preaching of the Sutra that amazingly includes, in a logical loop, this very scene of the Sutra being preached). It is already a pretty wild vision before Dogen even sets to work on it. The Lotus Sutra describes the sacred happening like this:

At that time, before the Buddha, a Stupa of the Seven Treasures [gold, silver, pearl, etc.], five hundred yojanas in height, and two hundred and fifty yojanas in length and breadth, sprang out from the earth and abode in the sky… When that Buddha [Abundant Treasures] was practicing the Bodhisattva way in the past, he had made a great vow: “After I have realized [the state of] Buddha and died, if in the lands of the ten directions there is any place where the Lotus Sutra is preached, my Stupa shall spring up and appear before that place so that I may hear the Sutra.”

In a Shobogenzo essay called Hokke-Ten-Hokke (“The Flower of Dharma Turns the Flower of Dharma”), Dogen takes this scene, flips it around, stirs it up, and brings it home to his fans. The expression “turning the flower of Dharma” can mean a Buddha’s preaching of the Dharma, the Buddhist Truth, and it also can mean that the whole beautiful universe is like a flower turning. At the end, the reference to “non-thinking” (hi-shiryo) is the same one that Dogen often employs to describe the state of mind in Zazen which is “thinking-not-thinking” that is “non-thinking”:

[Dogen says:] There is turning the Flower of Dharma in the presence “before the Buddha” of a “Treasure Stupa,” whose “height is five hundred yojanas.” There is turning the Flower of Dharma in the “Buddha sitting inside the Stupa,” whose extent is “two hundred and fifty yojanas.” There is turning the Flower of Dharma in springing out from the earth and abiding in the earth, [in which state] mind is without restriction and matter is without restriction. There is turning the Flower of Dharma in springing out from the sky and abiding in the earth, which is restricted by the eyes and restricted by the body. Vulture Peak exists inside the Stupa, and the Treasure Stupa exists on Vulture Peak. The Treasure Stupa is a Treasure Stupa in space, and space makes space for the Treasure Stupa. The eternal Buddha inside the Stupa takes his seat alongside the Buddha of Vulture Peak, and the Buddha of Vulture Peak experiences the state of experience as the Buddha inside the stupa. When the Buddha of Vulture Peak enters the state of experience inside the Stupa, while object and subject on Vulture Peak [remain] just as they are, he enters into the turning of the Flower of Dharma. […] “Inside the stupa,” “before the Buddha,” “the Treasure Stupa,” and “space” are not of Vulture Peak; they are not of the world of Dharma; they are not a halfway stage; and they are not of the whole world. Nor are they concerned with only a “concrete place in the Dharma.” They are simply “non-thinking.” (based upon the Nishijima-Cross translation)

The sacred, all so thoroughly interconnected and inter-flowing, every bit pouring in and out of every bit, is the turning of the flower of the Buddha’s teaching, the whole universe turning, sometimes experienced in the world of restrictions and sometimes unrestricted, which is all the “non-thinking” of Zazen!

Dig it!

~~~

Gassho, J
stlah

**Hokuu** · 05-05-2026, 07:32 AM

At the start of the chapter, I was wondering how Mr Reeves would get out of the wildly messy set of images. I must say he did pretty well, although I'm not sure whether the conclusions he came to could really be deduced **from** the text.
And yes, I did appreciate the emphasis on Shakyamuni's humanity. Were he not human, Buddhism would make no sense for ordinary people.

satlah

**Bion** · 05-05-2026, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Hokuu

At the start of the chapter, I was wondering how Mr Reeves would get out of the wildly messy set of images. I must say he did pretty well, although I'm not sure whether the conclusions he came to could really be deduced **from** the text.
And yes, I did appreciate the emphasis on Shakyamuni's humanity. Were he not human, Buddhism would make no sense for ordinary people.

satlah

I feel the same. His conclusions might not be straight from the text itself...

gassho
sat lah

**Chikyou** · 05-05-2026, 12:58 PM

I agree with you both that his conclusions don’t really seem to have come from the text. I appreciated them all the same and really enjoyed this chapter.

This, in particular, stood out to me as a good lesson to take to heart (no matter where it came from):

“Such affirmations are not just sentiments; they are an indication of where our own energies should go—that is, into purifying this world and realizing the buddha-nature of things in this world, thus enabling us both to see this world as a Pure Land and to transform it into a Pure Land.”

Excerpt From
The Stories of the Lotus Sutra
Gene Reeves & Rafe Martin

‎The Stories of the Lotus Sutra

https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-stories-of-the-lotus-sutra/id852795947

‎Fiction & Literature · 2010

This material may be protected by copyright.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

**MikeH** · 05-05-2026, 08:56 PM

I'm grateful to Reeves for drawing out of this chapter of the Sutra some deep questions about the relationships between the names: Shakyamuni Buddha, The Buddha, buddhas, and buddha-nature. I know this has come up in our discussions. I would like to read more about this and would be grateful for suggestions. This is what stood out for me.

The question I have: What is the Dharma Flower Sutra? I have been thinking of it as the text we are reading (or as the words recited long ago before it was written down). But this cannot be the case without falling into a paradox. According to the text, Abundant Treasures Buddha vowed eons ago to revisit any place where the Dharma Flower Sutra is taught after his death. This vow entails that A.T. Buddha knew the Dharma Flower Sutra. But the text of the Sutra we are reading contains a story about A.T. Buddha eons after he makes his vow. How could A.T. Buddha know a text that contains a story about him eons after his death? So the Dharma Flower Sutra is not the entire text (unless A.T. Buddha is a time-traveller, which I suppose he is). So is it a special part of the text? Or is it, as Reeves seems to suggest, the truth the text is about?

[Edited: After rereading Jundo’s post, it looks like he and Dogen answer my question. More reading ahead!]

Gassho,
Satlah,
Mike

**Chikyou** · 05-06-2026, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by MikeH

The question I have: What is the Dharma Flower Sutra? I have been thinking of it as the text we are reading (or as the words recited long ago before it was written down). But this cannot be the case without falling into a paradox. According to the text, Abundant Treasures Buddha vowed eons ago to revisit any place where the Dharma Flower Sutra is taught after his death. This vow entails that A.T. Buddha knew the Dharma Flower Sutra. But the text of the Sutra we are reading contains a story about A.T. Buddha eons after he makes his vow. How could A.T. Buddha know a text that contains a story about him eons after his death? So the Dharma Flower Sutra is not the entire text (unless A.T. Buddha is a time-traveller, which I suppose he is). So is it a special part of the text? Or is it, as Reeves seems to suggest, the truth the text is about?

[Edited: After rereading Jundo’s post, it looks like he and Dogen answer my question. More reading ahead!]

Gassho,
Satlah,
Mike

I get the feeling here that the Dharma Flower Sutra isn’t a text at all (I know, I know, it literally is LOL) but something eternal. Or it’s pointing to something cosmic and eternal. We have the Dharma Flower Sutra (the text) and it’s describing the Dharma Flower Sutra (the cosmic eternal Dharma). A sutra within a sutra.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

**Bion** · 05-06-2026, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Chikyou

I get the feeling here that the Dharma Flower Sutra isn’t a text at all (I know, I know, it literally is LOL) but something eternal. Or it’s pointing to something cosmic and eternal. We have the Dharma Flower Sutra (the text) and it’s describing the Dharma Flower Sutra (the cosmic eternal Dharma). A sutra within a sutra.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

It´s an interesting mental exercise, as MikeH also points out, to try to extract the teaching labeled the dharma flower from the text written down to try to contain, support, elaborate on, and preserve that boundless teaching.

gassho
sat lah

**Tairin** · 05-06-2026, 07:57 PM

Well the comments above pretty much capture what I was thinking after reading this chapter. The sutra story itself feels a bit like a hot mess of imagery. I wasn’t certain exactly how Reeves got to the conclusions he drew in the commentary but maybe he just used the story as a jumping off point.

As for the self referencing of the Dharma Flower Sutra to itself, well we chant the Heart Sutra every week and that sutra is basically self referencing as well. I think the point is that the Dharma is the Dharma (is the Dharma). The words are just words but the essence is eternal. Or something like that.

Reeves did allude to something I picked up on too. The Buddha is somehow both individual and separate which I thought was something akin to the Relative/Absolute being (as Jundo would say) two sides of a no sided coin.

Tairin
sat today and lah

**Menmoku** · 05-07-2026, 01:44 PM

Strangely I just took delivery of this...
image.jpg

**Taiji** · 05-07-2026, 10:38 PM

Hey, everybody!

I gotta say, I have been enjoying the wild imagery and stories so far, and this one really cranks it up to 11!

I'm probably gonna ramble a bit here, but I promise I'm headed somewhere it with all.

The thing that stands out most to me, though, is that sense that the latest installment of the Lotus Sutra Laser Light Show that unfolds here, complete with overflow seating in literally billions of extra worlds, is itself one big instance of expedient/skillful means. Everything in the story strikes me as something that both is exactly what it says on the tin, so to speak, and far more than the literal description. You've got countless worlds full of countless buddhas and bodhisattvas, all purified, for example, and you've got seemingly magical means of venerating a book. Well, it is that, but then it's also more than that.

With the billions of buddhas and buddha-worlds, I feel like this can be nothing more and nothing less than beings throughout space and time, each in their own circumstances (our own worlds, so to speak) becoming aware of the true dharma (which is embodied here in Buddha as he expounds it). When that happens, abundant treasures naturally manifest because of how one's awareness can shift, and those billions of "worlds"/perceptions/experiences can become "purified" of their impediments. It reminds me of something a Pure Land practitioner told me once: That, more or less, this world is the Pure Land, if we'd just be able to see it. In a case like that, it isn't the world that needs to be purified; it's our perceptions that need to be clarified.

Perhaps wildly askew from Buddhism, it reminds me of Satan in Paradise Lost observing that "The mind is its own place, and in it self / Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n" (254-255).

Regarding the easy practices described (e.g., venerating the sutra), the idea that if you just do that, that guarantees your eventual buddhahood or similar, first struck me as a bit absurd, and I found myself feeling particularly judgy about that. But again, skillful means and things being more than they seem appears to be a theme here, so I spent some time pondering it. I was reminded of all the times in my life when I've felt like the barrier to entering some particular practice or pursuit felt just too high, so I didn't even attempt it. Life was busy or stressful, or I didn't have the confidence in myself, or I needed to build up slowly, or any number of other things.

Sometimes what we need is the easy thing. We need something simple that we can can get our head around and succeed at, and perhaps from there, we start to grow. Our perception shifts. And even if we never go beyond the easy thing, I suspect that if we do it with complete and total sincerity, then we'll largely get where we're going. That might just be its own brand of stupa-manifesting 4K HD miraculous sort of thing.

Gassho,
Taiji
Sat/LAH Today

(Also, maaaan, I gotta break down and get a copy of the main text now, for real.

)

**Jundo** · 05-07-2026, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Menmoku

Strangely I just took delivery of this...

Hmmm. Very mysterious. I assume that the cause is that you ordered it.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

PS - Metta for mom in the background.

**Chiko** · 2026-05-08T02:19:10+00:00

Friends,

I’ve been sick this week with no energy to read, but I’m starting to feel better and will see you all on Saturday ready to go!

Gassho, Chiko
st/lah

**Ryūdō-Liúdào** · 2026-05-08T02:22:57+00:00

In many ways, this chapter flows in a different stream than I do. At times, I find myself struggling a bit with the more triumphal or “this is the highest path” tone that sometimes appears in the sutra. I also tend not to connect very deeply with the grand spectacle and fanfare of the imagery; if anything, that style has the opposite effect on me. That may be the whole point though, different messages to reach different mindsets n all.

That being said, the part that really stays with me is the idea of the Dharma remaining alive. To me, that feels less about preserving structures or grand declarations, and more about lived experience.

The Buddha pointed toward a path he found valuable and liberating, but he also encouraged people not to follow blindly. We’re asked to question, experience, and verify the Dharma for ourselves.

I think that’s how the Dharma remains alive: not merely as words or tradition, but through people actually living it... here, now, moment by moment.

To sum up my thoughts on this chapter...

Some are inspired by jeweled towers filling the cosmos
Some are inspired by quietly washing a bowl
The Dharma survives both ways
But only if someone actually lives it

Gasshō,
流道-Ryūdō-Liúdào
Satlah

Side note: this site no longer loads well for me without using a VPN and if the VPN routes through Singapore, it won't work (my ISP routes through SG normally). Not sure why this is, but yep, just putting it out there.

**Choujou** · 2026-05-08T19:55:08+00:00

Ok, the paranormal guy in me started reading this chapter and couldn’t help but think how much like a UFO book this chapter sounds! A domed “jeweled” craft, Non-humans and creatures of all sorts, Buddhas from billions of worlds in all directions… now, as much as I would love to discuss things like life in the universe and non-human entities, this aspect was, for me, to get a point across. The Dharma is universal. All that is, well, it’s one big thing. Do I think that Shakyamuni pulled in billions of worlds and sat all Buddhas on lion’s seats under jeweled trees? No… however, I do think that Shakyamuni, as Buddha, is one with all Buddhas, beings, time, space, and it is precisely in this state that you will perceive and sit with the “abundant treasure” of awakening. You see the jeweled trees (Indra’s net), and all Buddhas seated underneath. Really, it’s all one thing… all is Buddha. Even the jeweled tree and the Buddha underneath are interconnected. So, how do we achieve such awakening? Through practicing the one great vehicle. The lotus sutra guides us towards such a practice. In turn, we are asked to teach others the lotus sutra, to teach the one great vehicle and to save all sentient beings… no easy task! To fling a world with your toe WOULD be easier indeed! But through skillful means we always give it our best and continue to do so… passing what we know to others who will take on the difficult task after us…

Gassho,
Choujou

sat/lah today

Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 14: The Great Stupa of Abundant Treasures Buddha

Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 14: The Great Stupa of Abundant Treasures Buddha

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