Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 7: The Rich Father and the Poor Son

[Bion]

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Happy Monday, everyone!

We’re continuing with our book, just as we do every week. I have a feeling you’ll really enjoy this chapter and its story.

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Reading Assignment: Chapter 7 - The Rich Father and the Poor Son

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As usual, please take your time with the reading—ponder it, sit with it—and then, when you're ready, return to this thread and share your thoughts.

For anyone who couldn't make it this past Sunday, the recording of our last meeting is now available on our Study Page. It was a rich discussion, and if you watch the recording and feel inspired to respond, we’d love to hear from you.

Happy reading—I’m really looking forward to seeing what you make of this chapter.

Gassho, sat lah

[Chikyou]

I do really appreciate Reeves’ take on this chapter. He highlighted faith in oneself, and that’s not a message that I got when I read the parable itself (at least not so plainly as Reeves put it) but it really resonates with me and my own life experience. The world is a terrifying place when you don’t have faith in your ability to handle it, as I didn’t for many years and as the poor man in the parable didn’t, either. Things changed drastically for me when I started to feel like I could take it on. The Dharma and my practice supports me in this - they’re my refuge and my roadmap, and a support that I know I can lean on when things become difficult.

I’m really interested to hear what everyone has to say about Reeves’ statement that Jesus is the Buddha. For me, I sometimes call myself a Jesus admiring Buddhist (I love the teachings of Jesus himself, but could never bring myself to believe the rest of Christianity, even when I was a practicing Christian) and to me this makes sense. After all, if Buddha is all people and all things, then of course, Buddha is also Jesus. (Assuming for a minute that historical Jesus existed at all.) In the Parable of the Plants (I cannot wait until we get to this one, it’s my favorite) it talks about the Dharma coming to everyone according to their need (that thread runs through the whole Lotus Sutra actually) and I could easily see Jesus’ teachings being one of the ways in which the Dharma comes to others according to their specific needs.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Myojo]

Doubt is the fifth classic hindrance to meditation.
The first four are hatred, sensual desire, sloth and worry.
Doubt comes in three forms; doubt in the teacher, the teaching or oneself.
We are dealing with the third kind here.
How do we overcome doubt in ourselves?
Personally I have wrestled with this all my life.
The three conceits are worth considering in this regard I think;
I am better than you.
I am worse than you.
I am the same.
The Buddha said none of these were true.
The culprit is the repeated phrase 'I am'...
The way out is to recognise that we are not this body/mind...
To drop them off....

[Myojo]

Responding to Chikyo's point, I draw a distinction betewwen the Buddha and Buddha Nature.
The Buddha is what Siddartha Gotama was called after his enlightenment.
Buddha Nature is what Siddartha Gotama realized.
We doubt that our true nature is universal love and wisdom.
Any great being like Jesus or Krishna are manifesting Buddha Nature.
Often people twist the teachings of these Great beings to make them somehow unreachably greater than we are but they are always point out our greatness...
Perhaps we train so that one day we might be anle to accept our true nature...
Is this the meaning here?

[Maro]

In the previous chapter Reeves makes an observation that, for me, when looking as deeply and honestly as I can, I feel it is so (which is a kind of a wee sad state of affairs )

In one sense, it is a matter of self-doubt or lack of confidence, but more importantly it is a matter of doubting the benevolence of the Buddha...

Gassho
Maro
sat lah

.

[MikeH]

I loved this chapter of Reeves (and the associated chapter of the Lotus Sutra). This story of the lost son, and last chapter's story about the burning house, are (for me at least) living up to Reeves' hype about this Sutra. I'm feeling completely drawn in now and can't wait for our next group discussion.

I’m really interested to hear what everyone has to say about Reeves’ statement that Jesus is the Buddha. For me, I sometimes call myself a Jesus admiring Buddhist (I love the teachings of Jesus himself, but could never bring myself to believe the rest of Christianity, even when I was a practicing Christian) and to me this makes sense. After all, if Buddha is all people and all things, then of course, Buddha is also Jesus.

I'm glad you raised Reeves' Buddha-Jesus parallel. ("The Buddha may not even go by the name of a buddha. Sometimes perhaps he goes by the name of Christ..."). I see the point, but I didn't love what Reeves said here, mainly because it might feel condescending to Christians and invite unnecessary negative reactions from them. So it's not "skillful means." It reminded me of the Jesuit idea of "anonymous Christians"--everyone who is trying to live a good moral life (the Buddha, for example) is really just a Christian, whether they realize it, like it, or not. It feels passive-agressive to me: "Your god is actually just my god in disguise!" "No way! It's your god who's really just my god in disguise!" Can we just....not?

If Reeves wanted to mention Jesus in this chapter, then he had some very low-hanging fruit that he could have picked and savoured. This Sutra story about the lost son is strikingly similar to the story in Luke 15 about the prodigal son. So interesting! The stories were written roughly around the same time too, from what I gather. Possible influence one way or the other? Or just common parable theme because it is so typically human? Child thinks he knows best; child leaves loving home to live "freely"; child learns that in fact he does not know best; child suffers and is far from being free; child returns home content just to be a servant in his household; child is surprised by parent's forgiveness and generosity; party for child ensues.

Something that really stood out: "The Buddha's wealth--supreme awakening or enlightenment--is not something you have to earn or purchase in any way; it already belongs to you; it was yours from before your birth; it is your rightful inheritance." Wow. Just wow. If I could just realize that, I'd stop shoveling dung all day.

A question: What does it mean that the "The Buddha needs us, needs everyone"? The Buddha is enlightened and therefore does not need anything or anyone, right? I think I need some Buddhism 101 here.

Gassho,
satlah,
Mike

[Bion]

A question: What does it mean that the "The Buddha needs us, needs everyone"? The Buddha is enlightened and therefore does not need anything or anyone, right? I think I need some Buddhism 101 here.

Gassho,
satlah,
Mike

It is in the very nature and duty of a Buddha to teach the Dharma to sentient beings, to dispel delusion, and to lead others to awakening. All Buddhas presented in the Lotus Sutra—past, present, and future—preside over their own lands, each populated by countless arhats and bodhisattvas.

In both the Mahayana tradition and the Pali Canon, the Buddha’s mission is the same, and the reasons for a Tathagata’s appearance in the world are identical: compassion for all beings, the teaching of the Dharma, the revelation of the spiritual life, serving as an unsurpassed guide for people and a teacher of devas and humans, and setting the wheel of Dharma in motion. Without suffering beings, none of this would be necessary.
On the other hand, from a Mahayana perspective, no one is outside of Buddha, no one is extra, no one is not needed, no one is not wanted. Something like that, I believe

Gassho
sat lah

[Bob-Midwest]

I’m really interested to hear what everyone has to say about Reeves’ statement that Jesus is the Buddha. For me, I sometimes call myself a Jesus admiring Buddhist (I love the teachings of Jesus himself, but could never bring myself to believe the rest of Christianity, even when I was a practicing Christian) and to me this makes sense. After all, if Buddha is all people and all things, then of course, Buddha is also Jesus. (Assuming for a minute that historical Jesus existed at all.) In the Parable of the Plants (I cannot wait until we get to this one, it’s my favorite) it talks about the Dharma coming to everyone according to their need (that thread runs through the whole Lotus Sutra actually) and I could easily see Jesus’ teachings being one of the ways in which the Dharma comes to others according to their specific needs.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō[/QUOTE]

This reference to Jesus caught my attention too, but with discomfort.
I remember being at a Christian contemplative retreat years ago and a priest complimenting other faiths, but saying they are really just Jesus’ teachings in hiding. While this may not be exactly what Reeves is saying here (though I am not sure), it could be interpreted that way. A shaded reference to Buddha’s superiority is not honoring other faiths, nor that of the Dharma.
And if Buddha is Jesus, as you say, then Dharma says Jesus is Buddha. It is precisely this messiness that leaves me uncomfortable, all while personally straddling the worlds of Buddha and Jesus.
Bob
sat/lah

[Bob-Midwest]

Responding to Chikyo's point, I draw a distinction betewwen the Buddha and Buddha Nature.
The Buddha is what Siddartha Gotama was called after his enlightenment.
Buddha Nature is what Siddartha Gotama realized.
We doubt that our true nature is universal love and wisdom.
Any great being like Jesus or Krishna are manifesting Buddha Nature.
Often people twist the teachings of these Great beings to make them somehow unreachably greater than we are but they are always point out our greatness...
Perhaps we train so that one day we might be anle to accept our true nature...
Is this the meaning here?

Would you also say Buddha is manifesting the mind of Christ?
bob
sat, lahd

[Bob-Midwest]

I loved this chapter of Reeves (and the associated chapter of the Lotus Sutra). This story of the lost son, and last chapter's story about the burning house, are (for me at least) living up to Reeves' hype about this Sutra. I'm feeling completely drawn in now and can't wait for our next group discussion.



I'm glad you raised Reeves' Buddha-Jesus parallel. ("The Buddha may not even go by the name of a buddha. Sometimes perhaps he goes by the name of Christ..."). I see the point, but I didn't love what Reeves said here, mainly because it might feel condescending to Christians and invite unnecessary negative reactions from them. So it's not "skillful means." It reminded me of the Jesuit idea of "anonymous Christians"--everyone who is trying to live a good moral life (the Buddha, for example) is really just a Christian, whether they realize it, like it, or not. It feels passive-agressive to me: "Your god is actually just my god in disguise!" "No way! It's your god who's really just my god in disguise!" Can we just....not?

If Reeves wanted to mention Jesus in this chapter, then he had some very low-hanging fruit that he could have picked and savoured. This Sutra story about the lost son is strikingly similar to the story in Luke 15 about the prodigal son. So interesting! The stories were written roughly around the same time too, from what I gather. Possible influence one way or the other? Or just common parable theme because it is so typically human? Child thinks he knows best; child leaves loving home to live "freely"; child learns that in fact he does not know best; child suffers and is far from being free; child returns home content just to be a servant in his household; child is surprised by parent's forgiveness and generosity; party for child ensues.

Something that really stood out: "The Buddha's wealth--supreme awakening or enlightenment--is not something you have to earn or purchase in any way; it already belongs to you; it was yours from before your birth; it is your rightful inheritance." Wow. Just wow. If I could just realize that, I'd stop shoveling dung all day.

A question: What does it mean that the "The Buddha needs us, needs everyone"? The Buddha is enlightened and therefore does not need anything or anyone, right? I think I need some Buddhism 101 here.

Gassho,
satlah,
Mike

You captured my feelings exactly on the Jesus reference.
I once sat with a Korean Zen group, which never missed an opportunity to criticize Christians, all the while missing that they were repeating the offenses (log in the eye) that they heaped on others.
bob
sat, lah

[Bion]

And if Buddha is Jesus, as you say, then Dharma says Jesus is Buddha. It is precisely this messiness that leaves me uncomfortable, all while personally straddling the worlds of Buddha and Jesus.
Bob
sat/lah

From the big ocean, many kinds of waves rise. Some alone sink ships, others carve rocks, others carry boats safely to shore. Some leave lasting marks, and others quietly withdraw back into the ocean without making too much fuss. The ocean of oneness sometimes rises as a Shakyamuni, a Jesus, a Mohammed, a Jim Jones, and sometimes a Bob or a Bion. "All things are an expression of emptiness," we say. We are, in a great sense, each other in a different guise.

gassho
sat lah

[Bob-Midwest]

What stood out to me in this story is a message of accepting people where they are - spiritually or otherwise - and not judging their paths. I too feel like I have spent my life shoveling dung and looking back on six decades, I see it was all just right, despite not receiving or even wanting a fortune.
bob
sat, lah

[Tenryu]

I do really appreciate Reeves’ take on this chapter. He highlighted faith in oneself, and that’s not a message that I got when I read the parable itself (at least not so plainly as Reeves put it) but it really resonates with me and my own life experience. The world is a terrifying place when you don’t have faith in your ability to handle it, as I didn’t for many years and as the poor man in the parable didn’t, either. Things changed drastically for me when I started to feel like I could take it on. The Dharma and my practice supports me in this - they’re my refuge and my roadmap, and a support that I know I can lean on when things become difficult.

I really appreciated reading your post, Chikyou ! That part about faith in oneself, yes, that landed here exactly the same way. I also didn’t really see that so clearly in the parable itself, but the way Reeves brings it out, it suddenly feels very obvious.

What you describe about the world feeling overwhelming when that trust isn’t there, that was very familiar for me too. And also that shift, when something changes and you begin to feel like you can actually take things on. Not perfectly, but enough. That matched my own experience quite closely. I also found myself in that line about having no ambition and no real sense of needing to improve. It didn’t feel negative, more like being a bit stuck or unsure how to step forward. And then things don’t change all at once, but slowly, almost in the background.

And yeah… the bit about the “humble tasks” made me laugh a little. I actually worked as a stable hand for a few years, so that one hit pretty directly. At the time it definitely didn’t feel like “preparation for something greater.” But reading this again now, after jukai, it doesn’t feel separate at all. Just part of the same path, nothing wasted.

What you said about the Dharma and practice being something you can lean on also really resonates. That’s been my experience too. Not as something that removes difficulty, but something steady that’s there when things get rough.

The father in the story being patient stood out to me as well. No pushing, just staying close and letting things unfold in a way that can actually be received. That felt quietly reassuring.

Doubt is the fifth classic hindrance to meditation.
The first four are hatred, sensual desire, sloth and worry.
Doubt comes in three forms; doubt in the teacher, the teaching or oneself.
We are dealing with the third kind here.
How do we overcome doubt in ourselves?
Personally I have wrestled with this all my life.
The three conceits are worth considering in this regard I think;
I am better than you.
I am worse than you.
I am the same.
The Buddha said none of these were true.
The culprit is the repeated phrase 'I am'...
The way out is to recognise that we are not this body/mind...
To drop them off....

Myojo , thank you for the reminder! That third kind of doubt has been very familiar terrain. Especially the way it shows up through all those “I am…” positions. Better, worse, the same. Once that box opens, things tend to spiral pretty quickly. For me it doesn’t even take much. Just a small step into that way of thinking, and it starts to build on itself. So that line about dropping it, not taking the “I am” as something solid, feels very close to how this plays out in my own life.

Gasshō,
Tenryū
sat&lah

[Maro]

From the big ocean, many kinds of waves rise. Some alone sink ships, others carve rocks, others carry boats safely to shore. Some leave lasting marks, and others quietly withdraw back into the ocean without making too much fuss.

gassho
sat lah

[Maro]

How beautifully put

Gassho
Maro
satlah