Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 1: The Enchanting World of the Lotus Sutra

[Bion]

Hi all I feel I am just getting in under the wire but it's been a busy week and I try to make sure I've read the readings at least twice before commenting.

I think the one thing that strikes me about this chapter (and the preceding on as well) is this repeated emphasis on how the concrete and the magical worlds can co-exist. I think Onsho touched on this too. Is this really so hard? Does Reeves really need to keep pounding on this path? I've always had a very active imagination. I am also a very active and vivid dreamer. Many times these images really just blend in with whatever is happening in the "concrete" world. I don't find this strange at all. In fact I'd argue this is a skill we've all once possessed although maybe some have lost it over time. Children has extremely vivid imaginations and play. I recall sitting at the dinner table listening to my son talk about whatever he'd been playing at. To him it was as real as anything else.

Anyways, so far I am totally down with the idea that the magical and the concrete worlds can co-exist. I am eager to see how this actually manifests itself in the readings once we get into the meat of the Lotus Sutras.

Thank you everyone for your reflections.


Tairin
sat today and lah

I think for a broader audience that isn’t necessarily accustomed to Mahayana texts, this can be quite shocking compared with some other sutras and suttas from the various canons—especially given that it’s a “Thus have I heard” type of text. A simple look into the history of the text also reveals that it clearly doesn’t belong to what we’d call the “oldest Buddhist teachings,” the ones scholars believe might go back to the time of the Buddha. This was a later composition.

Adding to that a Western audience that often comes to Zen because it’s “less religious” and less about woo-woo, I can understand why Reeves would want to prepare readers and help us shake off preconceived notions about how things should or shouldn’t match our idea of reality. Just my take, though.

Gassho
sat lah

[Tairin]

Adding to that a Western audience that often comes to Zen because it’s “less religious” and less about woo-woo, I can understand why Reeves would want to prepare readers and help us shake off preconceived notions about how things should or shouldn’t match our idea of reality. Just my take, though.

I can see your point. I say bring on the woo-woo.


Tairin
sat today and lah

[Tensei]

I read through the chapter a few times, and as a few others have alluded to, I feel as though I started a senior-level course after forgetting everything I learned in the prerequisites. I needed to look up terms like ontological dualism and egalitarianism, as I kept mixing up ontology with ontogeny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontogeny) and getting sidetracked.

Regardless, there were some very compelling points in this chapter. I really enjoyed the discussion of the concrete on pages 13-14, "The narratives of the Lotus Sutra are not a means to an end beyond themselves..." It called to mind a contradiction of John Heywood's proverb "You can't see the wood for the trees," where instead the trees are also the wood.

The quote from the sutra later on page 14 reminded me of our discussion on the vehicles of Buddhism last week. I think the line "Even in all the directions, there are no other vehicles except the skillful means of the Buddha," is an excellent nod towards the 84 000 dharma doors - there are many paths, and many vehicles, but in essence they're all the same path and the same vehicle.

Additionally, I thought that the paragraph on enchantment (page 16) was a very excellent counterpoint to what can be misunderstood as nihilism. Our lives, what we do and how we live, are important and valuable.

So, what did I learn in this chapter? First, I gained an appreciation for the complexity of translation. The number of referential texts required to translate the Sutra must have been immense. Second, I learned that even in this fantastical world of enchantment, we are still called to practice and to actively participate with the teaching.

As well, what is one question I have? I wish I could ask Reeves for a list of companion books to read along with his commentary. I'm not familiar with much Tendai literature or many 12th century poets, so I felt a bit out of my depth with the pieces he referred to.

Thank you to everyone for their insightful comments - I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the next chapter!

Gassho,
Tensei
satlah

[Shujin]

As well, what is one question I have? I wish I could ask Reeves for a list of companion books to read along with his commentary.

Good morning. There may be other opinions, but I think that it's less important to understand the Lotus Sutra within the Tendai tradition than understanding its place within Soto Zen. You may remember that Dogen was first ordained Enryaku-ji, a Tendai monastery, before later switching to the Zen school. Dogen refers to the Lotus Sutra extensively in his Shobogenzo, and reading it helps demystify some of Dogen's analogies.

From the Nishijima/Cross introduction to Shobogenzo:

"In this way, Master Dogen emphasizes that the words of the sutras and masters whom he reveres are not meant to convey only conceptual meaning.
Those words are trying to bring us back to the reality which is prior to words. This is particularly true with respect to the Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra
contains the characters 是経 (ZEKYO), "this Sutra." In several chapters of Shobogenzo (specifically chap. 52, Bukkyo, but see also chap. 17, Hokke-ten-
hokke) the fact emerges that, in Master Dogen's mind, this Sutra and the real Universe in which we live are identified. That being so, Master Dogen, in his commentaries, seems to treat the characters of the Lotus Sutra not as a stream of concepts but rather as a series of momentary mirrors, or independent blocks, of real form – to be brought in and re-arranged as Master Dogen sees fit."

William LaFleur's writing is quite good, but it's also directed at an academic audience. I love it, but it's not essential for understanding Buddhism. I ordered a used copy of Awesome Nightfall from Alibris, but it was out of stock... I think I'll have to order an eBook version.

Gassho,
Shujin
st/lah

[Tensei]

Shujin I unfortunately have not read the Nishijima/Cross translation yet (my library only has smaller compendiums like those by Cleary), but it looks like there are some digital versions available online while I wait for my physical copies to be delivered. I'm excited to explore the links between the Lotus Sutra and Dogen's writings.

I'm not the most well versed on the topic, but I know that the 12th century was an intense period of Buddhist development in Japan. I'm looking forward to reading "Soto Zen in Medieval Japan" by Bodiford, which I have stashed in my TBR pile for when midterm season ends. I'll add some Saigyo poetry to the list, too.

As an aside, thank you for referring to Alibris! I've had a heck of a time tracking down a used bookstore with a decent dharma-focussed catalog.

Gassho,
Tensei
satlah

[Dainei]

A late reflection on Chapter 1 but it put me off, like sniffing a carton of milk that wasn't quite past it's best by date but the clumps and aroma leave you unsettled and reluctant to gulp it down. The profusive praise of cosmological enchantment it describes in the Sutra, doesn't jive with what "reality just as it is" which, i think, embodies our path to see and accept the real world. Putting it into a cultural context that writers used certain techniques at time or even explaining that such fantastical descriptions actually referred to more mundane concepts would have assuaged my scepticism but, alas, i don't forsee that happening. One might as well take the Christian Bible's Book of Revelation literally.

I will put aside my curmudgeonly attitude and be open to the next chapter and be content as long as flowers don't sprout from my ears when i begin Chapter 2.

Gassho and "get off my lawn"
Dainei
Sat

[Shujin]

I will put aside my curmudgeonly attitude and be open to the next chapter and be content as long as flowers don't sprout from my ears when i begin Chapter 2.

Gassho and "get off my lawn"
Dainei
Sat

Well, sir, I regret to inform you that much of the Lotus Sutra will not get much better in terms of being less fantastic. The good news is that you can and should read it within the conditions of your own life. See what is helpful, or what fits. We don't have to accept the whole enchilada.

Gassho,
Shujin

[Dainei]

Thank you Shujin I will approach it with an open mind .

Gassho,
Dainei

[Taikyo]

I find the following paragraph very interesting:

"In Chapter 1 of the Sutra, before the vast assembly, having already preached the Sutra of Innumerable Meanings, the Buddha entered deeply into meditative concentration. Then, to prepare the assembly to hear the Buddha preach, various omens suddenly appeared—flowers rained down from the heavens on everyone, the earth trembled and shook, and the Buddha emitted a ray of light from between his eyebrows, lighting up eighteen thousand worlds to the east, so that the whole assembly could see these worlds in great detail, including their heavens and purgatories, all their living beings, and even their past and present buddhas. Surely we are being advised here that we are entering a different world, and a different kind of world, a world that is at once rich in fantasy and at the same time anchored in this world."

By reading this, I suddenly realized that it is not about an imaginative world; these stories were meant for the people of that era. The Lotus Sutra uses vocabulary and language understandable to people with a different perception of the world than the one we have today. Their cosmography—their way of mapping the world around them—implied a myriad of universes in the form of bubbles. Each bubble contained lower planetary systems with purgatories, demons, and unpleasant entities; middle realms with human-like beings; and higher realms with planets inhabited by celestial beings.

The symbolism was that the Buddha could see through all of them and, with a ray of light, illuminate part of those innumerable universes, emphasizing His enlightened state. The Lotus Sutra was not meant for us as its original audience. Our cosmography, mapping, and language for describing reality are different. We see the world through today’s modern scientific lens, which is not the ultimate truth—it is just our angle of perceiving truth, just one ray of sunlight.

Therefore, I understand that we should not underestimate the Lotus Sutra as mere fantasy stories. With respect, we should take from it the useful message and guidance for our path to realizing our Buddha nature, and leave aside what we do not understand from our point of view, perhaps it was not meant for us.

Gassho
Taikyo
sat/lah

[Jundo]

doesn't jive with what "reality just as it is"

One might say that this "not jiving" is also "just as it is," and so we need to accept and bow to that!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Marita]

But current science speaks of multiple bubble universes! I actually had a vision of reality as made up of Bubble Worlds, while I was at a temple 40 years ago.. I shared it many years later with an astrophysisist and he was amazed or at least acted that way lol.

Sat today/lah
Gassho
Marita

[Shui_Di]

Even if you search in all directions, You will find no other vehicles— Except the skillful means of the Buddha.

I love this words.
It reminds me too in the Short Amitabha Sutra, where Buddha said in Amitabha Pureland, the trees and birds all preaching the Dharma.

In this reality where we touch it in our Zazen, all l is just the skillful means of the Buddha. The reality of this life, is always preaching the teaching of the Buddha.

Gassho, Mujo
Stlah