Stories of the Lotus Sutra - 1 - Foreword and Introduction

[Maro]

I read the foreword a few weeks back and there was a feeling of something being strongly challenged. I did not understand clearly what was at stake. So I felt it in peace for a while and now it is much clearer. The “failed imagination”as Rafe Martin points out as the source of duhkha – “we can see the shrivelled fruits of failed imagination all around us. We live within it. But what would fulfilled imagination look like?” I read this as failed imagination being the cause of duhkha.

And I remembered the grand failure ! :-) in my practice in the Vajrayana path years back in my linear perception of time. A path which stressed that the root of samsara are not the kleshas but ordinary view and ordinary appearance. And here lies the big challenge for me.

Again!
Only this time it feels like there is some adequate foundation to rely on so as to relate to imagination without the doubts and scepticism of the past.

Jundo Roshi in a talk I heard in Insight Timer, talks about a sesshin he attended in Sojiji some 30 years ago where he assumed the imagined role of a seater at ease. (The talk is titled the Inner Switch of Zazen). I feel he is referring to the same power.


For me the study is going to centre and revolve around imagination (as an absolutely valid path, or supreme skilful mean) and become very intimate with how grasping to a self is hindering the actualization of the buddha nature. (Add to the mix the sentence “the lazy tendency of relying on belief” and … it’s going to be very interesting)

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Thank you Bion for the energy, time and kindness you put for preparing and supporting this study group

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Gassho
Maro

sat/lah

[Naiko]

Hi all,

When I saw that our book club selection was about stories from the Lotous Sutra, my interest was piqued. I am lazy about studying our important texts, but I am fascinated by stories and our need to create them. I decided to join you all on this journey after reading the Foreword and Introduction. I found Reeve’s enthusiasm for the transformative power of these stories very compelling. I especially liked what Rafe Martin wrote about imagination and the power of stories as experiences.

“Imagination is a Way, and it is food and nourishment and a bed to rest upon while we’re on the Way.”

A little sidetrack: Reeves mentions that the Sutra has been both loved and reviled. I am only aware of people chanting the name or the entire Sutra. Does anyone know when/why it has been reviled? Just curious.

Gassho,
Naiko
stlah

[Tenryu]

Does anyone know when/why it has been reviled? Just curious.

Hi,

In short: The Lotus Sutra has often been criticized because it teaches that all beings can become Buddhas, which differs from more hierarchical interpretations of Buddhism. By presenting earlier teachings as provisional and emphasizing faith and propagation, it came into tension with established schools and institutions, often with political consequences.

Gasshō
Tenryū
st lah

[Bion]

A little sidetrack: Reeves mentions that the Sutra has been both loved and reviled. I am only aware of people chanting the name or the entire Sutra. Does anyone know when/why it has been reviled? Just curious.

Oh , it introduced a series of new ideas - upending the conventional view of the Buddha and his tradition - amongst which the Buddha as a universal, cosmic being, rather than a human teacher, and it declared itself the most important teaching of the Buddha, basically saying that the earlier teachings were not unadulterated truths, but rather pragmatic and expedient means for inferior beings of lesser capacities—those who were not ready for the deeper truths the sutra claimed to set forth, such as the revelation of the Buddha’s true nature. It also presents the concept of the “one vehicle” as the true Buddhist way, as opposed to the traditional divisions into two or three vehicles (shravaka, pratyekabuddha).

One of my favorite scholars on buddhism, Jan Nattier, also speaks in an essay about how the Lotus devaluates women, people of low social status and nonhumans.

So, in many circles, this was a problematic text with outrageous new concepts. Precisely because it opened the door to wild new interpretations, it is not hard to see how that can become porblematic really fast.

Gassho
sat lah

[Chikyou]

I read the forward and introduction this past weekend and have been sitting with it since then. Rafe Martin’s forward is incredible in general, but one thing that stood out to me and spoke strongly to my personal experience was what he had to say about the power of stories. Stories have always been extremely powerful to me, with the ability to influence my emotions and life far beyond the moment when I close the book. I used to be afraid of this, and I wouldn’t read because I didn’t want to be influenced by something upsetting. I finished The Neverending Sacrifice (Star Trek book, if you’re not a nerd like me!) last weekend as well and I found it so relevant that it’s been living rent- free in my head ever since. Rafe Martin’s poignant words have me eager to embrace this, rather than run from it.

I look forward to reading the Lotus Sutra in its entirety! (I have only read, and loved, pieces of it thus far).

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Naiko]

Oh , it introduced a series of new ideas - upending the conventional view of the Buddha and his tradition - amongst which the Buddha as a universal, cosmic being, rather than a humnan teacher, and it declared itself the most important teaching of the Buddha, basically saying that the earlier teachings were not unadulterated truths, but rather pragmatic and expedient means for inferior beings of lesser capacities—those who were not ready for the deeper truths the sutra claimed to set forth, such as the revelation of the Buddha’s true nature. It also presents the concept of the “one vehicle” as the true Buddhist way, as opposed to the traditional divisions into two or three vehicles (shramana, pratyekabuddha).

One of my favorite scholars on buddhism, Jan Nattier, also speaks in an essay about how the Lotus devaluates women, people of low social status and nonhumans.

So, in many circles, this was a problematic text with outrageous new concepts. Precisely because it opened the door to wild new interpretations, it is not hard to see how that can become porblematic really fast.

Gassho
sat lah

Thank you, Tenryu and Bion for answering my question! Very interesting. I’ll search for that essay. I’m very curious how the Sutra devalues women more than what was already present in early Buddhism. I thought all the excess Vinaya rules for women predated that. It may be my modern bias, but I think all modern religions devalue people of low social status and nonhumans. This is going to be very interesting reading!
Gassho,
stlah

[Bion]

Thank you, Tenryu and Bion for answering my question! Very interesting. I’ll search for that essay. I’m very curious how the Sutra devalues women more than what was already present in early Buddhism. I thought all the excess Vinaya rules for women predated that. It may be my modern bias, but I think all modern religions devalue people of low social status and nonhumans. This is going to be very interesting reading!
Gassho,
stlah

Regarding the Vinaya rules, the interesting aspect is that many of the "extra" bhikkhuni rules are actually included in the monks' rules. For example, in one section of the bhikkhuni's Vinaya. there are 8 rules, which also appear compiled as just one in another section of the bhikkhu rules. Apart from that, more than one third of the extra rules for nuns were put in place to protect bhikkhunīs from being the subjects of the abusive or careless behavior of other bhikkhunis. Another two of the extra rules prevent bhikkhunis from putting themselves in a position of servitude to bhikkhus or lay people and according to the rules' origin stories, all but three of the extra rules were formulated only after bhikkhunis complained to the bhikkhus about an errant nuns behavior.

As for the Lotus sutra, in some of the chapters, descriptions of pure lands include mentions that none of the evil rebirths are present there, so no hungry ghosts, animals and a special mention to no women. Another passage in the chapter on bodhisattva medicine king mentions that if any woman hears, accepts and remembers this text, she will never again be reborn as a woman. There is much more in the text. It does reflect a specific mindset that existed. One of the stories is actually that of the naga princess who changes into a man to attain buddhahood at hyper-speed. Jan Nattier actually states that "the story of the någa girl thus conveys several messages simultaneously: that however spiritually advanced a female character may be, it is essential that she become a male prior to the final attainment of buddhahood." Many tend to take this story as something postitive, but as you can see, it isn't so in everyone's eyes.

Gassho
sat lah

[Naiko]

Thank you, Bion!
Gassho,
stlah

[Maro]

Dear Sangha
in parallel with the stories of the Lotus Sutra, I am reading Uchiyama Roshi's book "the roots of goodness" - I find that, for me, it complements nicely the contemplations on the idea of the bodhisattva/dainin.

In the cover of the book there is an ink painting which I find very beautiful and emanating joy and the thought came "ah! Treeleaf Sangha going ...." (somewhere)
So I wanted to share the painting and the thought with all of you :-)

Gassho
Maro
sat/lah

[Shinkon]

I'm looking forward to readingthis commentary. In the past, I've read commentaries on varying sutras and texts for other religions. From the introduction, I see that this author takes a different tack by stating that he concentrates on the narrative, rather than a dogmatic or doctrinal approach. This will be refreshing.
Thank you Bion for heading this foray into one of my favorite sutras.
I am glad to be a part this study group.

Gassho,
Shinkon
satlah

[Taikyo]

In my career, I have encountered many storytellers. They were simple, ordinary people who, at village gatherings, retold stories. And what is interesting is that different storytellers had their own variations of the same stories—so different, in fact, that it was often hard to determine they were the same stories at all. What I came to realize is that the details of the stories are not what matter, but rather the wisdom they carry within themselves, as a collective heritage arising from the dawn of humanity, a gift from the ancestors to future generations.

That is the kind of wisdom I expect to hear in Gene Reeves’ Stories of the Lotus Sutra. Not expecting the stories to be literally true, nor to be historically accurate, philosophically or theologically correct, or consistent with any tradition. I believe that each of these stories holds a gift for every one of us, and that each person will receive that gift in their own unique way.


Gassho
Taikyo
sat\lah

[Onsho]

The forward really stood out to me. After some contemplation, I decided to express it through the modern artistic communication medium of summarizing it as poorly as possible.

TL;DR
The writer says imagination is the secret cure for pollution, war, hatred, climate change, and consumerism, and concludes that we’re all already enlightened cosmic beings who just forgot to believe in the metaphor hard enough and an ancient psychological firmware update will fix all our problems.

I loved the introduction, Im excited to be combing through it with everyone.

Gassho
Onsho
satlah

[Kinshu]

Hello everyone!!!!


I'm reading Gene Reeves' book with you all, but also the complete Lotus Sutra. I'm really enjoying it; some teachers I've met before have a very harsh approach to Zen, and they treat Buddhist philosophy in a very atheistic way, sometimes. So this magical world with spiritual entities, golden palaces, and endless LIVING worlds has been very good for me. Reading the Lotus Sutra makes me feel that we are not in a universe full of immense, yet dead and lifeless planets. We are part of a living universe!
And also, the Buddha hasn't been dead for 2500 years, totally extinguished or uninterested in the world and the universe, but rather a cosmological being present in everything and everyone, within our reach and touch!
This demonstrates incredible compassion and not indifference.
I'm very excited to embark on this reading with you all!

Gasshô!
Kinshū
sat/lah

[Choujou]

Wow! What an introduction! I like that it is noted that this sutra doesn’t focus on doctrine, but stories that are intended to cause complete transformation. A text intended to change me fundamentally towards being a Buddha?! Count me in!!! Stories have always been an important medium for human beings to convey lessons, truths, spiritual insights, and the lotus sutra seems to be one of those scriptures that does just this. Many may not know, but I am fairly new to Zen and Buddhism and this will be my first time diving into the lotus sutra! I am very excited to be joining you all on this! (I wish I could join all the Saturday discussions but will have to catch up afterwards on most due to my work schedule.) Thank you, Bion for putting this all together! This is going to be fantastic!!!

Gassho,
Choujou

sat/lah today

[Seikan]

I'm a bit late to the posting party for week one, and I agree with what so many others have already said about the preface and introduction, so I'll try not to repeat more of the same here.

I will say that I really appreciate how both the preface and introduction set the stage for what I expect to be a very accessible and I hope, "relatable" reading experience. I am also a big fan of using stories, poems, and other forms of narrative to convey teachings. It's one thing to read an academic description of something (such as an act of compassion), but to read/hear a narrative take on the same thing can elicit a more empathetic response within us. This can help the teachings resonate more deeply so that we feel them "in our bones", if you will.

I'm looking forward to joining you all for the first group discussion this weekend.

Gassho,
Seikan
stlah