The Platform Sutra: Sections 48-50, p250-260 (256-266 on Kindle)

[Kokuu]

Dear all

This week we will be looking at sections 48-50 of the sutra, as we approach the death of the six patriarch.

In section 48 it is told that Huineng recognises he is close to the end of his life and he asks his monks if there is anything they wish him to clarify. Some of them cry and he admonishes them, praising Shen-hui for not differentiating between like and dislike, and telling everyone that our true nature is not subject to coming and going.

Huineng then recites a gatha for the community to help them understand the nature of all things. He tells us to get rid of all that we think is true and that will free us from all that is false. As the Hsin Hsin Ming says: “If you wish to know the truth then hold no opinions for or against anything.”

In section 49, Fa-hai asks to whom the dharma robe will be passed and, as is one of the themes of this sutra, Huineng says that the dharma has already been given (in the form of this sutra) and the robe is no longer needed as a sign of that transmission. He also says that twenty years after his death someone will come forward and carry forth the teachings, distinguishing that which is true from what is not. This refers to Shen-hui, who is one of the fundamental proponents of the southern school against the northern.

Huineng recites verses from each of the six patriarchs, including himself, each using the theme of seeds and flowers to represent our potential and awakening.

In section 50, Huineng gives two verses he has composed about Bodhidharma’s own verse, the first talking of false flowers blown apart by karmic winds and the second of cultivating true flowers through the development of prajna wisdom (another of the key themes of the sutra).


Questions

1. As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?
2. In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

Wishing you all a beautiful week.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Hosui]

As some of our Platform Sutra musings this week crosses over from Jundo’s parallel class on the Avatamsaka Sutra’s influence on Dogen’s writing, it’s clear that birth interpenetrates death, as does coming unify with going. What we’d be upset about instead, concerning a loved one’s passing, is merely our mind’s ignoring that unity. Translating the “Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Bodhi! Svaha!” of the Prajnaparamita as “going, going, going on beyond, and always going on beyond, always becoming buddha. Hail!…”, there’s no end to our manifesting suchness, and so, as bodhisattvas, we’ll never reach that place, and yet here we are!

Our buddha nature doesn’t move, even if we do.

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah today

[Chikyou]

I think Hosui answered these questions perfectly. However I’ll take my own swing at it:

• As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?

I think that, because we are human with human emotions and perspectives, we will never truly reach a place of not feeling pain when we lose someone close to us (and I’m not sure we should reach that place, honestly). However I do think that we can experience the pain and sorrow of loss, and equanimity about it, all at the same time. Not two not one. It hurts, we’re sad, and yet we see beyond all that.

• In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

This gatha confused the heck out of me! He goes on about how the thing that doesn’t move isn’t alive and doesn’t have Buddha nature and then wants us to search inside ourselves for the ever present thing that doesn’t move? Huh?

I suspect Hosui’s response is right on the money though. “Our Buddha nature doesn’t move, even if we do.”

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Hoseki]

Hi folks,

1. As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?

I think it’s OK! If we are upset and try to push it away then we are still playing the good and bad game. If we are upset we should just be with the feelings. It would be much like Shikantaza. Sometimes we will be sad and aware of the sadness at the same time. Other times we slip into being absorbed in that pain (especially in the beginning.) Then we will come back to being sad and being aware of that sadness. The mundane is the gateless gate to the divine.

1. In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

I think he’s talking about awareness. Or more specifically, our ability to be aware of our awareness. With dependent origination (as I understand it) there is the arising of the object and the consciousness of the object. When we take that backwards step we are aware of ourselves aware of the object. This ability is always available and in a sense already part of the consciousness of object. In a way, it changes every time the object changes or a we encounter an object that corresponds to a different consciousness (hearing). In another way, it’s always the same and it’s always available because we’re always consciousness of something. It’s through our everyday experiences of the world, samsara, that act as the gateless gate to nirvana. The gate is gateless because a gate is what allows one to move from one territory to another. But a gateless gate is one that allows us to move to a different territory only to realize you haven't actually left the first territory. At least this is how I read it.

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Onsho]

As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?Yes, we should. We should be very upset. On a cosmic scale i think its our DUTY to feel grief and morn our loved ones. There is a Stephen Wilson JR. song lyric "Grief is only love with no where to go" that comes to mind. If you don't morn and feel grief then you never really experienced the connection. Our practice is to be intimate with all things, every thing is our practice and I will always opt to feel my emotions deeply as they really are.

In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?
I think the absolute is what does not move. You can only see the absolute from the relative and the relative is what moves.

Gassho
Onsho
satlah

[Tairin]

• As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?

We aren’t robots. We are human beings with emotions. Yes I think it is perfectly fine and perfectly normal to be upset when those close to us die. I do think it is important though to try to meet these moments with equanimity. It is fine to be sad. Be with your sadness but don’t be consumed by it.

• In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

From the Gateless Gate Case 29

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "The wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

This also reminds me of Jundo’s video of sitting in downtown Tokyo https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tre...r-beginners-21

There is always a stillness present


Tairin
sat today and lah

[Taigen]

Questions

1. As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?
2. In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

1. I think it is only natural and human to grieve when those we love pass away. What Zen offers, I think, is detachment from things being other than as they are. It helps us to accept the reality of the person's passing and not cling to the ways things could have be or could be otherwise.
2. Just this.

Gassho,
Taigen
SatLah

[Hokuu]

As ‘our true nature is not subject to coming and going’ do you think we should be upset when those close to us pass? Do we ever reach a place of treating good and bad the same?

It’s human to be upset. I’d be more concerned about a person who is not upset when those close to us pass.
I believe we can reach a place where deep down we realize there is no good nor bad and at the same time act out of compassion whether it means offering a smile to somebody or stopping an aggressor.

In the gatha, Huineng tells us to ‘in movement find what doesn’t move’. What is he pointing to. What doesn’t move? What is always present?

In a recent interview, Muho talked with a Korean nun (although Japanese by nationality); he asked her, “Who are you?”, and she just poured tea, drank it and said, “I’ve already answered your question”. I think it’s a good answer to Kokuu’s question too

Gassho
Hokuu
satlah

[Kokuu]

Dear all

I am in totaly agreement with all of you that sadness is the appropriate response to loss, and I don't know that anyone ever gets to a place where they are so comfortable with impermanence that it is never not the case. As Tairin says, we are human beings with emotions, and the purpose of Zen practice is to understand and embody that totally rather than try to sidestep or eliminate our humanity.

And good answers to the second question, all pointing to the same thing - the absolute, our buddha nature, the awareness that everything arises in. A friend of mine on a ten day vipassana retreat was asked this question of what remains constant throughout all of her sitting, and she replied, 'my annoying mind'!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-