The Zen Master's Dance - 2 - How To Read Dogen (Top of p. 5 to Middle of p. 12)

[FNJ]

Sorry, you may have missed the task ...

~~~

So, in the assignment, you have a different story with elements such as "a man" "came to the house" "close friend" "went to sleep" "becoming intoxicated" "wine." "intimate friend" "go out"

Ok one more try then I'll just accept there is no hope for someone like me.

[Dōgen says:]

There is the misfitting of Dharma in the expectation of form of the ritual garment, which is a cloth stitched from norms unseen. There is the masking of Dharma that is the entry into community, whose threads are bound by silence and shape. There is a turning of Dharma by those who do not pass and those who cannot conform, whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits.

There is the exclusion of Dharma in the body that moves differently and the mind that resists the mold, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Disability is within form, and form is on accommodation. The weirdo sangha is a field of suchness abiding in space, and space opens space for the unstandardized path. The timeless Buddha within the invisible condition shares a jewel of difference with the Buddha of skillful means, and the Buddha of accommodation shares the realization of the Buddha within the norm-breaking expression.

When the Buddha of formality experiences this state within the noncompliant mind, together all things, he also enters into the state of the true inclusion of beings beyond mere use. This “within the roughness,” “before the diagnosis,” the unspoken effort,” and “space” are not limited to training paths; they are not limited to the lineage of robes and names; they are not limited to some ideal of student or teacher; neither are they matters of compliance or defiance. Nor are they matters of some fixed form or function.
They are simply “.”

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

Ok one more try then I'll just accept there is no hope for someone like me.

[Dōgen says:]

There is the misfitting of Dharma in the expectation of form of the ritual garment, which is a cloth stitched from norms unseen. There is the masking of Dharma that is the entry into community, whose threads are bound by silence and shape. There is a turning of Dharma by those who do not pass and those who cannot conform, whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits.

There is the exclusion of Dharma in the body that moves differently and the mind that resists the mold, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Disability is within form, and form is on accommodation. The weirdo sangha is a field of suchness abiding in space, and space opens space for the unstandardized path. The timeless Buddha within the invisible condition shares a jewel of difference with the Buddha of skillful means, and the Buddha of accommodation shares the realization of the Buddha within the norm-breaking expression.

When the Buddha of formality experiences this state within the noncompliant mind, together all things, he also enters into the state of the true inclusion of beings beyond mere use. This “within the roughness,” “before the diagnosis,” the unspoken effort,” and “space” are not limited to training paths; they are not limited to the lineage of robes and names; they are not limited to some ideal of student or teacher; neither are they matters of compliance or defiance. Nor are they matters of some fixed form or function.
They are simply “.”

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

Well, sorry, not really. Why not take the elements of the "sewing jewel" story and plug them in? I am not sure why you seem confused, and why so much sarcasm in your response. It is obviously intentional.

However, it is okay, and we can just move on. I won't spend more time bothering.

Gassho, J
stlah

[FNJ]

Well, sorry, not really. Why not take the elements of the "sewing jewel" story and plug them in? I am not sure why you seem confused, and why so much sarcasm in your response. It is obviously intentional.

However, it is okay, and we can just move on. I won't spend more time bothering.

Gassho, J
stlah

No disrespect but that's exactly what I tried to do in in my second attempt.

I am not being sarcastic. I am trying my very best to figure out how to do the assignment. Maybe it'll become clearer as we go. I thank you for this opportunity!

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

No disrespect but that's exactly what I tried to do in in my second attempt.

I am not being sarcastic. I am trying my very best to figure out how to do the assignment. Maybe it'll become clearer as we go. I thank you for this opportunity!

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

Okay. The point is to try to get an understanding of how Dogen plays his "language games" so we can read him more easily when we dive into his writing in Shobogenzo.

So, for this practice, take these elements from the "sewing jewel" story, such as

... "a man" "came to the house" "close friend" "went to sleep" "becoming intoxicated" "wine." "intimate friend" "go out" "official business" "sews" "priceless jewel" "his friend’s garment" "roams around" "arrives in another country." "poor fellow!" "lack of food and clothing" "the desires of the five senses" "seek your livelihood" "great effort and hardship" "very foolish" "Sell this jewel" "use it to buy what you need" "neither poverty nor want" "live as you wish" ...

... and just plug them in here where you think appropriate, and sounds good or interesting to you. Maybe try to put things in places where they resonate nicely somehow ...


[Dōgen says:] There is the [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma in the [SCENE FROM STORY] of the [THING FROM STORY] which is a [DESCRIPTION FROM STORY] There is the[ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma that is the [ANOTHER SCENE FROM STORY] whose[ANOTHER DESCRIPTION FROM STORY]There is a [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma by [SOME ACTION FROM STORY] and [DIFFERENT ACTION FROM STORY] whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits. There is the [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma in[SOME ACTION FROM STORY] and [DIFFERENT ACTION FROM STORY], which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. [PLACE IN STORY] is within [ANOTHER PLACE IN STORY], and the [ANOTHER PLACE IN STORY] is on [PLACE IN STORY]. The [PLACE IN STORY] is a [THING IN STORY] abiding in space, and space opens space for the [PLACE IN STORY]. The timeless Buddha within the [A PLACE IN STORY] shares a [THING IN STORY] with the Buddha of [SOMETHING FROM STORY], and the Buddha of [SOMETHING ELSE FROM STORY] shares the realization of the Buddha within the [A PLACE OR THING IN STORY]. When the Buddha of [SOMETHING FROM STORY] experiences this state within the [THING OR PLACE FROM STORY] together with body, mind, and all things, he also enters into the state of the [ACTION FROM STORY]. [. . .] This “within the [PLACE OR THING FROM STORY],” “before the [THING OR PLACE FROM STORY],” the [THING FROM STORY],” and “space” are not limited to [PLACE FROM STORY]; they are not limited to the [BUDDHIST PHRASE OF YOUR CHOOSING]; they are not limited to some [OTHER BUDDHIST PHRASE OF YOUR CHOOSING]; neither are they [BUDDHIST DESCRIPTION OF REALITY]. Nor are they matters of some fixed [BUDDHIST PHRASE.] They are simply “non-thinking.”

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Shoshin]

Oh, okay, look at this ... it is just this wild scene from the Lotus Sutra (the meaning can be debated, but is just some kind of miraculous scene) ...

ORIGINAL FROM LOTUS SUTRA:

At this time, before the Buddha, a stupa of seven treasures , five hundred yojanas in height and two hundred and fifty yojanas in length and breadth, sprang up from the earth and abided in the sky . .

So, you have elements there like "there appeared before the Buddha" "a stupa" "of seven treasures" "five hundred yojanas in height" that "sprang up from the earth" and "abided in the sky" ... and all this happens at Vulture Peak, which the stupa hovers over.

Dogen took those elements in his word jazz to become ...

DOGEN:
There is the turning of the flower of Dharma in the appearance “before the Buddha” of the “treasure stupa,” which is a “height of five hundred yojanas.” ... There is a turning of the flower of Dharma by springing forth from the earth and abiding in the earth, whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits. There is the turning of the flower of Dharma in springing out of the sky and abiding in the earth, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Vulture Peak is within the stupa, and the treasure stupa is on Vulture Peak.

He wilds it up in this way, twists relationships between things (e.g., Vulture peak is in the stupa). The stupa not only "springs out of the earth and hovers in the sky" but also "springs out of the sky and abides in the earth."



So, in the assignment, you have a different story with elements such as "a man" "came to the house" "close friend" "went to sleep" "becoming intoxicated" "wine." "intimate friend" "go out" "official business" "sews" "priceless jewel" "his friend’s garment" "roams around" "arrives in another country." "poor fellow!" "lack of food and clothing" "the desires of the five senses" "seek your livelihood" "great effort and hardship" "very foolish" "Sell this jewel" "use it to buy what you need" "neither poverty nor want" "live as you wish."

Usually, this story is taken to mean that the "jewel" is the Buddha Nature which we all have within us but do not know, so we live foolishly and squander our lives.

So, if you just take those elements and plug them into the Dogen "paint by numbers" I made (even quite at random really) you will get a sense what Dogen does with the elements of traditional Buddhist stories. Don't do it if it is too tiring for your brain though. It is supposed to be an enjoyable exercise in understanding Dogen's writing tricks.


[Dōgen says:] There is the [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma in the [SCENE FROM STORY] of the [THING FROM STORY] which is a [DESCRIPTION FROM STORY] There is the[ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma that is the [ANOTHER SCENE FROM STORY] whose[ANOTHER DESCRIPTION FROM STORY]There is a [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma by [SOME ACTION FROM STORY] and [DIFFERENT ACTION FROM STORY] whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits. There is the [ACTION FROM STORY] of Dharma in[SOME ACTION FROM STORY] and [DIFFERENT ACTION FROM STORY], which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. [PLACE IN STORY] is within [ANOTHER PLACE IN STORY], and the [ANOTHER PLACE IN STORY] is on [PLACE IN STORY]. The [PLACE IN STORY] is a [THING IN STORY] abiding in space, and space opens space for the [PLACE IN STORY]. The timeless Buddha within the [A PLACE IN STORY] shares a [THING IN STORY] with the Buddha of [SOMETHING FROM STORY], and the Buddha of [SOMETHING ELSE FROM STORY] shares the realization of the Buddha within the [A PLACE OR THING IN STORY]. When the Buddha of [SOMETHING FROM STORY] experiences this state within the [THING OR PLACE FROM STORY] together with body, mind, and all things, he also enters into the state of the [ACTION FROM STORY]. [. . .] This “within the [PLACE OR THING FROM STORY],” “before the [THING OR PLACE FROM STORY],” the [THING FROM STORY],” and “space” are not limited to [PLACE FROM STORY]; they are not limited to the [BUDDHIST PHRASE OF YOUR CHOOSING]; they are not limited to some [OTHER BUDDHIST PHRASE OF YOUR CHOOSING]; neither are they [BUDDHIST DESCRIPTION OF REALITY]. Nor are they matters of some fixed [BUDDHIST PHRASE.] They are simply “non-thinking.”


Gassho, Jundo
stlah

I'll try tomorrow. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation

Gassho
Satlah

[Houzan]

Another attempt. I have to say that this paint by numbers exercise did give me a better sense of what Dogen does. But while I can only juggle two balls (I feel), he is juggling 10! So it’s a feeling, and I can’t still put my finger squarely on it.

Dogen says: There is the walking with a stroller early in the morning of the tired dad, with the sun rising. There is the walking with a stroller late in the afternoon when the rain pours down. There is the walking with a stroller by pushing the stroller and pulling the stroller whereby mind is without obstructions and the stroller is without limits. There is the walking with a stroller by pushing the stroller and pulling the stroller, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Down by the stream is within the top of the hill, and on top of the hill is down by the stream. Down by the stream is a tired dad abiding in space, and space opens for the stream. The timeless Buddha down by the stream shares a tired dad with the Buddha of an energized dad and the Buddha of a relaxed dad shares the realization of the Buddha down by the stream. When the Buddha of an energized dad experiences this state down by the stream together with body, mind, and all things, he also enters into the state of walking with a stroller. This «down by the stream», «on top of a hill», «the tired dad», and «space» are not limited to down by the stream, they are not limited to facing the wall for nine years; they are not limited to mu; neither are they limited to the jewel net of Indra. Nor are they matters of some fixed eightfold path. They are simply “non-thinking.”

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Jundo]

Another attempt. I have to say that this paint by numbers exercise did give me a better sense of what Dogen does. But while I can only juggle two balls (I feel), he is juggling 10! So it’s a feeling, and I can’t still put my finger squarely on it.

Dogen says: There is the walking with a stroller early in the morning of the tired dad, with the sun rising. There is the walking with a stroller late in the afternoon when the rain pours down. There is the walking with a stroller by pushing the stroller and pulling the stroller whereby mind is without obstructions and the stroller is without limits. There is the walking with a stroller by pushing the stroller and pulling the stroller, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Down by the stream is within the top of the hill, and on top of the hill is down by the stream. Down by the stream is a tired dad abiding in space, and space opens for the stream. The timeless Buddha down by the stream shares a tired dad with the Buddha of an energized dad and the Buddha of a relaxed dad shares the realization of the Buddha down by the stream. When the Buddha of an energized dad experiences this state down by the stream together with body, mind, and all things, he also enters into the state of walking with a stroller. This «down by the stream», «on top of a hill», «the tired dad», and «space» are not limited to down by the stream, they are not limited to facing the wall for nine years; they are not limited to mu; neither are they limited to the jewel net of Indra. Nor are they matters of some fixed eightfold path. They are simply “non-thinking.”

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

It is nice. 80% Dogenish.
But you are supposed to do it with the "sewing jewel" elements!

Just for practice, please try the "paint by numbers" version that I just wrote Shoshin and see what happens ...

I am not sure why I am failing to get the instructions across.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Houzan]

It is nice. 80% Dogenish.
But you are supposed to do it with the "sewing jewel" elements!

Just for practice, please try the "paint by numbers" version that I just wrote Shoshin and see what happens ...

I am not sure why I am failing to get the instructions across.

Gassho, J
stlah

Its good practice for me none the less
Nice deep dive into Dogen.

I did use the text above, I believe. Here is my cheat list:

[Action from story]: walking with a stroller.
[Scene from story]: early in the morning.
[Thing from story]: tired dad.
[Description from story]: sun rising.
[Another description]: late afternoon.
[Some action from story]: pushing.
[Different action from story]: pulling.
[Place in the story]: Down by the stream.
[Another place]: on top of the hill.
[Something from story]: an energized dad
[Something else from story]: a relaxed dad

Maybe it has something to do with the substitutes I use?

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Jundo]

Its good practice for me none the less
Nice deep dive into Dogen.

I did use the text above, I believe. Here is my cheat list:

[Action from story]: walking with a stroller.
[Scene from story]: early in the morning.
[Thing from story]: tired dad.
[Description from story]: sun rising.
[Another description]: late afternoon.
[Some action from story]: pushing.
[Different action from story]: pulling.
[Place in the story]: Down by the stream.
[Another place]: on top of the hill.
[Something from story]: an energized dad
[Something else from story]: a relaxed dad

Maybe it has something to do with the substitutes I use?

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

Oh, it is okay to use your own replacements, but after you did that the first time, I suggested you use the ones from the "sewing Jewel" story for a more Buddhist and "Dogeny" feel ...

So, in the assignment, you have a different story with elements such as "a man" "came to the house" "close friend" "went to sleep" "becoming intoxicated" "wine." "intimate friend" "go out" "official business" "sews" "priceless jewel" "his friend’s garment" "roams around" "arrives in another country." "poor fellow!" "lack of food and clothing" "the desires of the five senses" "seek your livelihood" "great effort and hardship" "very foolish" "Sell this jewel" "use it to buy what you need" "neither poverty nor want" "live as you wish."

... So, if you just take those elements and plug them into the Dogen "paint by numbers" I made (even quite at random really) you will get a sense what Dogen does with the elements of traditional Buddhist stories.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Shoshin]

Btw, Jundo , I keep on forgetting asking: is the title of the book inspired by Playford?
If so, if you are a fan like I am, this playlist is a jewel. Every piece included in any of the 18 editions in the order in which they were published:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/00UQvBd8Gw1muqgyfy9WkN?si=XrQt14vvSvmP6hVDTQrVoQ

Gassho
Satlah

[Jundo]

Btw, Jundo , I keep on forgetting asking: is the title of the book inspired by Playford?
If so, if you are a fan like I am, this playlist is a jewel. Every piece included in any of the 18 editions in the order in which they were published:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/00UQvBd8Gw1muqgyfy9WkN?si=XrQt14vvSvmP6hVDTQrVoQ

Gassho
Satlah

No, Shoshin. I never heard of them. But I will give it a listen. Thank you.

I think the title comes because I found these photos years ago of people present, yet merging into a dance, and I thought it a wonderful way to describe Emptiness and the vibrancy of the whole universe ...

.
image.png

image.png

MORE HERE:

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/the-beginner-s-place/buddha-basics/2949-buddha-basics-part-xvii-%E2%80%94-the-dance-of-emptiness

Gassho, J
stlah

[Shoshin]

No, Shoshin. I never heard of them. But I will give it a listen. Thank you.

I think the title comes because I found these photos years ago of people present, yet merging into a dance, and I thought it a wonderful way to describe Emptiness and the vibrancy of the whole universe ...

.
image.png

image.png

MORE HERE:

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/the-beginner-s-place/buddha-basics/2949-buddha-basics-part-xvii-%E2%80%94-the-dance-of-emptiness

Gassho, J
stlah

Oh, I see

I think you love music. If you are into early music you'll likely like this playlist.

Gassho
Satlah