The Platform Sutra: Sections 36 and 37, p205-211 (210-217 on Kindle)

[Kokuu]

Dear all

Just a short number of pages this week to bring us to the end of part II of the sutra.

In section 36, Huineng tells his audience that practicing his teachings does not require living in a monastery. He says that if you live in a monastery but do not practice you will not get anywhere but if you are a lay person who practices diligently, the Pure Land of awakening is there for you.

Huineng goes on to recite his Song of Formlessness for monastics and lay people alike. The song implores us to keep the light of wisdom shining on our delusions. Our original nature is already pure and we do not have to get rid of our delusionary thoughts but just see them for what they are. We should not leave the way to look for the way* – the way is to see the truth, not judge good and bad, right and wrong. We need skillful means to teach foolish people, but the way is beyond discrimination. Delusion lasts countless kalpas but awareness takes but an instant.

* Red Pine adds this from the Tsungpao edition: “Seeking enlightenment outside of the world, is like looking for rabbit horns.”

In section 37, Huineng tells his audience that if they recite his Song of Formlessness and practice its advice, they will always be by his side. He says that the dharma, although powerful, cannot do the work for us, we have to practice it ourselves.

This concludes his talk and everyone leaves, ending part II of the sutra.


Questions

1. Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

2. Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?


Wishing you a beautiful week.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Chikyou]

1. Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

Not surprised at all. In historical context, maybe I should be, because I’m aware that at the time a lot of spiritual pursuits were reserved for monastics however my understanding of Zen has always been that it’s for everyone.

2. Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?

His Song of Formlessness is…chewy. I am not sure what I think of it. But I need to come back to it.

These lines:

“the Dharma is in the world
in the world beyond the world
don’t run away from the world
to find a place beyond the world.”

Are striking. Especially this: “don’t run away from the world to find a place beyond the world”.

I can’t personally add any commentary that won’t detract from Huineng’s words.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[FNJ]

This is my first response to a prompt. Sorry I'm just jumping in.
I am waiting for a copy of the book but this is the translation I am working with.

A master of the Buddhist canons as well as of the teaching of the Dhyana school
May be likened unto the blazing sun sitting high in his meridian tower.
Such a man would teach nothing but the dharma for realizing the essence of mind,
And his object in coming to this world would be to vanquish heretical sects.

We can hardly classify the dharmas into "sudden" and "gradual"
But some men will attain enlightenment much quicker than others.
For example, this system for realizing the essence of mind
Is above the comprehension of the ignorant.

We may explain it in ten thousand ways,
But all those explanations may be traced back to one principle.
To illumine our gloomy tabernacle, which is stained by defilement,
We should constantly set up the light of wisdom.

Erroneous views keep us in defilement
While right views remove us from it,
But when we are in a position to discard both of them
We are then absolutely pure.

Bodhi is immanent in our essence of mind,
An attempt to look for it elsewhere is erroneous.
Within our impure mind the pure one is to be found,
And once our mind is set right, we are free from the three kinds of beclouding [hatred, lust, and illusion].

If we are treading the path of enlightenment
We need not be worried about stumbling blocks.
Provided we keep a constant eye on our own faults
We cannot go astray from the right path.

Since every species of life has its own way of salvation
They will not interfere with or be antagonistic to one another.
But if we leave our own path and seek some other way of salvation
We shall not find it,
And though we plod on till death overtakes us
We shall find only penitence in the end.

If you wish to find the true way
Right action will lead you to it directly;
But if you do not strive for buddhahood
You will grope in the dark and never find it.

He who treads the path in earnest
Sees not the mistakes of the world;
If we find fault with others
We ourselves are also in the wrong.

When other people are in the wrong, we should ignore it,
For it is wrong for us to find fault.
By getting rid of the habit of faultfinding
We cut off a source of defilement.

When neither hatred nor love disturbs our mind
Serenely we sleep.

Those who intend to be the teachers of others
Should themselves be skilled in the various expedients which lead others to enlightenment.
When the disciple is free from all doubts
It indicates that his essence of mind has been found.

The kingdom of buddha is in this world,
Within which enlightenment is to be sought.
To seek enlightenment by separating from this world
Is as absurd as to search for a rabbit's horn.

Right views are called transcendental;
Erroneous views are called worldly.
When all views, right or erroneous, are discarded
Then the essence of bodhi appears.

This stanza is for the Sudden school.
It is also called the Great Ship of Dharma [for sailing across the ocean of existence].
Kalpa after kalpa a man may be under delusion,
But once enlightened it takes him only a moment to attain buddhahood.

Questions

1. Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

No, I don't see how they would be that different. Some people don't trust themselves, monastics and lay people alike.

2. Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?

It speaks very loudly. But it kind of makes me lose faith in Buddhist institutions.

Gassho,
Sat today, LAH
Niall

[Hosui]

Firstly, I’m both surprised and not surprised by Hui-neng’s gearing this to clerics and laity. Since, as Chikyou and FNJ have already said, we all share in the buddha nature, why wouldn’t there be inclusion across monks and non-monks. But I’m just as surprised by what I saw as an implication in your first question, Kokuu, of a privileging of monastic over lay practice (I could’ve misread this here - forgive me). Obviously, there will always be home-leavers who benefit from the livelihood a monastic setting affords, despite the predominance of a domestic practice Treeleaf seems to champion. I take Treeleaf to be blurring this distinction.

However, and for instance, since you mentioned Oryoki at the end of last week’s discussion, Kokuu, I’m surprised this monastic form of practice in particular is retained in the context of lay practice, e.g. at Rohatsu retreat, indicating an underlying asymmetry in interpreting Hui-neng’s “you can do it at home too. It doesn’t require living in a monastery”. I get Oryoki’s symbolic intent of pointing us towards the practice-realisation inherent in everyday activities like eating and washing up. But if, as Dogen reminds us, we do not practice in order to attain realisation since our practice is already an enactment of realisation - and if our practice is about coming back to the truth of our interconnection for all beings/dharmas - and if our(seemingly linear) setting out on the path, aspiring to the truth, practicing (as monastics or lay) and realising the truth are all simultaneous for us all in this very moment, why then labour the monastery/home distinction since Dogen's points above already seem like a pretty radical equality? I’ve experienced the paradox myself, on many occasions in a zendo, of the extraordinary resources required to convey this simple teaching; so, seeing Oryoki used as a template for us laity regardless of the fact that we, together with the Magistrate, can just as easily (and even more simply) eat mindfully and wash-up mindfully, translating this ceremony into a domestic setting seems unnecessary. Does the monastic/domestic distinction pointed at by Hui-neng concern equal (equality) or fair (equitable) access to the Dharma, where the former levels the playing fields and the latter acknowledges horses-for-courses? The distinction seems troublesome, to me at least.

Secondly, for me, Hui-neng’s Song of Formlessness is a glorious reminder, in Red Pine’s seven stanzas, that 1) the teaching is all there, already formed; 2) but we need to keep practicing nonetheless. That 3) we are complete as we are; 4) but we often need to look more carefully. That 5) we need to make our own mistakes; 6) but we are all teachers of the Dharma just the same. And that, ultimately 7) we’d do well to wake up to all this at this very moment and every other moment.

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah today

[Onsho]

1. Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

it makes perfect sense to me that its for both monastics and lay people for two reasons. Firstly that monastics and lay people are the SAME people. The monastics have one other similarity being that they left home. The other reason being that there has been an emphasis that this is a very Mahayanin message as opposed to an esoteric message. He inadvertently stresses here that there isn't any secret message for the select few. The Way is for everyone and enlightenment is now.

2. Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?

Very much so. This song is a real banger, i remember being floored by its conciseness and simplicity when i first read this a few years ago.

Enlightenment is already pure
the thought of it is a delusion
but inside delusion is purity

People who truly follow the Way
don’t consider the faults of the world
Those who consider the wrongs of the world
only add to their own
I don’t condemn the faults of others
my own wrongs are what I’m after
just get rid of thoughts about wrongs
and all your afflictions will shatter

These two sections were waiting for me this time around. Wonderful reminders to myself, and I hope to embody there words when the time arises.

Gassho
Onsho
satlah

[Taigen]

1. Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

2. Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?

1. I was a little surprised to see it in this context. Treeleaf has worked hard to blur the lay/monastic distinction, but that's not always the case in the historic literature. I do appreciate that there is historical precedent though, it lends credibility to efforts in the present.

2. Maybe its the Taoist in me, but my favorite section of this was:
"The Way dwells in this bodily likeness
don't leave the Way to look for the Way
you won't find the Way that way."

The Way is right here. It always was, always is, always will be.

Gassho,
Taigen
SatLah

[Taigen]

People who truly follow the Way
don’t consider the faults of the world
Those who consider the wrongs of the world
only add to their own
I don’t condemn the faults of others
my own wrongs are what I’m after
just get rid of thoughts about wrongs
and all your afflictions will shatter

This section stuck out to me too, reminds me of the "remove the log in your own eye before you criticize the mote in your sibling's" lesson from that other religion. Mind your own business! But in a Zen way.

Gassho,
Taigen
SatLah

[Tairin]

Were you surprised that Huineng's message was equally to monastics and lay people?

No not really. Maybe I’ve been hanging out here too long but we read over and over again from a variety of teachers that being a monastic is not essential to this practice.

Does Huineng’s Song of Formlessness speak to you? Are there any parts in particular that you do or do not connect with?

This line struck me as much as anything.

don’t leave the Way to look for the Way

Tairin
sat today and lah

[Kokuu]

Thank you all for your answers and consistent engagement.

Question one probably does speak to my own surprise which is not my own privileging of monastics over lay folk, but I guess a familiarity with often seeing that message. Of course, it being a Mahayana sutra I probably should not have been as surprised as I was.

I really like Huineng's Song of Formlessness and am glad that many of you do also. Coming at the end of part II of the sutra it seems to summarise his teachings into a concise form and may have been something that people could take away and learn even if they didn't remember the entire sutra.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah

[Kokuu]

However, and for instance, since you mentioned Oryoki at the end of last week’s discussion, Kokuu, I’m surprised this monastic form of practice in particular is retained in the context of lay practice, e.g. at Rohatsu retreat, indicating an underlying asymmetry in interpreting Hui-neng’s “you can do it at home too. It doesn’t require living in a monastery”. I get Oryoki’s symbolic intent of pointing us towards the practice-realisation inherent in everyday activities like eating and washing up. But if, as Dogen reminds us, we do not practice in order to attain realisation since our practice is already an enactment of realisation - and if our practice is about coming back to the truth of our interconnection for all beings/dharmas - and if our(seemingly linear) setting out on the path, aspiring to the truth, practicing (as monastics or lay) and realising the truth are all simultaneous for us all in this very moment, why then labour the monastery/home distinction since Dogen's points above already seem like a pretty radical equality? I’ve experienced the paradox myself, on many occasions in a zendo, of the extraordinary resources required to convey this simple teaching; so, seeing Oryoki used as a template for us laity regardless of the fact that we, together with the Magistrate, can just as easily (and even more simply) eat mindfully and wash-up mindfully, translating this ceremony into a domestic setting seems unnecessary. Does the monastic/domestic distinction pointed at by Hui-neng concern equal (equality) or fair (equitable) access to the Dharma, where the former levels the playing fields and the latter acknowledges horses-for-courses? The distinction seems troublesome, to me at least.

Hi @Hosui

I think you make good points here. At Treeleaf, our intention is to give people (including our priests who don't themselves live in monasteries) a taste of the Oryoki ceremony once a year at Rohatsu. One reason for this is to in some ways emulate a traditional sesshin and how monks would be eating, and also because I think it is a very beautiful ceremony.

However, it is not meant to imply that it is a better method of eating than we would normally do at home, or is for everyone. Thus it is an optional part of the retreat that some people like to partake in so as to get a flavour of it.

As you point out, Oryoki is the essence of the practice-realisation Dogen speaks of, but it is for each of us to embody that in our own life and in our own way. Oryoki is not the standard for that, but it is hoped it may inspire us to bring more attention to mealtimes in the same way.

Nishijima Roshi had the intention of breaking down the divisions between lay and monastic and it has similarly been our way here. I am sorry if I seem to have muddied the waters as it was far from my intention.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Bion]

However, and for instance, since you mentioned Oryoki at the end of last week’s discussion, Kokuu, I’m surprised this monastic form of practice in particular is retained in the context of lay practice, e.g. at Rohatsu retreat, indicating an underlying asymmetry in interpreting Hui-neng’s “you can do it at home too. It doesn’t require living in a monastery”. I get Oryoki’s symbolic intent of pointing us towards the practice-realisation inherent in everyday activities like eating and washing up. But if, as Dogen reminds us, we do not practice in order to attain realisation since our practice is already an enactment of realisation - and if our practice is about coming back to the truth of our interconnection for all beings/dharmas - and if our(seemingly linear) setting out on the path, aspiring to the truth, practicing (as monastics or lay) and realising the truth are all simultaneous for us all in this very moment, why then labour the monastery/home distinction since Dogen's points above already seem like a pretty radical equality? I’ve experienced the paradox myself, on many occasions in a zendo, of the extraordinary resources required to convey this simple teaching; so, seeing Oryoki used as a template for us laity regardless of the fact that we, together with the Magistrate, can just as easily (and even more simply) eat mindfully and wash-up mindfully, translating this ceremony into a domestic setting seems unnecessary. Does the monastic/domestic distinction pointed at by Hui-neng concern equal (equality) or fair (equitable) access to the Dharma, where the former levels the playing fields and the latter acknowledges horses-for-courses? The distinction seems troublesome, to me at least.

Excuse my boldness here, hopping in on this topic.

Master Dogen himself admitted, by quoting master Nagarjuna, that lay practice is considered "difficult", precisely because it presents the challenges of worldly responsibilities whereas monastic practice is realized in an environment designed to support it and nourish it, thus is it is "easy" and conducive to awakening.(that is to say, LIFE IS HARD, man ) Retreats are a glimpse into monastic life, a direct experience of what it means to remain engaged in practice with a unified mind, despite having to run around, get things done etc

Oryoki is just another container where one can pour oneself and manifest realization, as you say. Like with all forms in Soto Zen, it offers the freedom of just doing, without having to pick and choose - "we do it precisely this way, now do it". (this is how we hold the body to sit... this is how we walk.... this is how we bow... this is how we hold the incense ... this is how we turn ..).
One finds that the difficulty comes from the "just do it" part. Oryoki involves the practice of Noble Silence as well, which is not just being quiet, but rather, being mentally "quiet" as well, like in zazen. No directed thought needed. Retaining a practice like Oryoki gives folks the direct experience of what it means to, as you say, "eat mindfully and wash-up mindfully", keeping an eye on oneself, on every movement and turn of the utensils, on not getting the clothes dirty, not making noises, not dropping food, on the folks eating next to us, on the leader who dictates the speed of eating, keeping an eye on the servers etc...Engaging in that, one can more easily understand how to translate that into "at home eating" that is done with the same spirit.

Master Dogen's monastic rules also stipulated how one is to get up in the morning, how to keep the hands and body as one walks to the wash room, where to look when walking past monks sitting in zazen, how to greet seniors that approach us or juniors that we approach etc... I doubt in lay life anyone pays attention to those things, yet we retain much of it for retreats or in the Zendo. We don't just walk anyhow, not even on Zoom. We walk in shashu, we gassho when joining the Zoom room and gassho when leaving, we retain the forms of preparing for sitting, we bow if we must cross in front of the Buddha altar, etc.

I guess we can say that engaging in formal practice, as it is done in monasteries, is yet another skillful way for us to become familiar with this body-mind, so that we know what to do with it in all moments of life, especially when we have the freedom to choose.

I don't know if this is what you meant by your comment, so, please disregard if what I say here feels not on topic.

Gassho
sat lah

[Hosui]

Thanks Bion

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah