The Platform Sutra: Sections 19-20 and commentary, p148-158 (153-163 on Kindle)

[Kokuu]

Dear all

This week we will read sections 19 and 20 and the accompanying commentary, which comprises pages 148-158 (153-163 on Kindle)

In section 19, Huineng sets out what he means by Zen practice (tso-ch’an) and Zen meditation (ch’an-ting) and relates that to our original nature which is naturally free of external form and internal confusion.

Red Pine points out how these definitions that Huineng uses further help us towards liberation rather than giving us something to cling to, leaving us face-to-face with our original nature.
In section 20, Huineng confers the formless precepts, but instead of the traditional three refuges of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha that we begin with in our Jukai and Ryaku Fusatsu ceremonies, he points us towards our own three buddha bodies (trikāya) as manifestations of our buddha nature – the pure dharma-body buddha (dharmakaya), the myriadfold transformation-body buddha (sambhogakāya), and perfect realisation- body buddha (nirmāṇakāya). He says that people tend to look outside themselves for these three buddha bodies rather than within.

Huineng goes on to explain how our original nature is always pure and gives the familiar analogy of the moon and sun continuing to shine even if they are covered by cloud, with the wind of wisdom blowing the clouds away and allowing us to see what was there all along.

Red Pine clarifies this as understanding that everything that arises is itself our nature and everything is pointing back to that nature. When we see everything as its own object, we remain in delusion, seeing it as a manifestation of our nature is liberation. The Tsungpao edition seems clearest on this stating “ten thousand dharmas are produced from our nature”. The Tsungpao text also describes our nature as “always clear like the sky”.

The Tsungpao version also has good advice on taking refuge in our own nature, saying “Always to see your own faults and not to talk about the good or bad of others, this is to take refuge in yourself. Always be humble and treat others with respect. When you see your nature in its entirety and you are no longer obstructed, that is to take refuge in yourself.”

Huineng then talks about how, because we live in a material body, we have thoughts, and it is on the basis on those thoughts that we are transformed, which is a lot like the first two verses in the Dhammapada:

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

(translation by Buddharakkhita at Access to Insight: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi...p.01.budd.html).

He urges us not to dwell on the past but rather to consider the future consequences of our words, thoughts and acts (due to karma). Even if the nature of good and bad thoughts are the same, each good thought transforms both us and the world. Dōgen’s work Shoaku Makusa resonates with this, stating that practice is just a matter of not doing wrongs. Whatever has gone before, or the situation now, we can choose to relate to our egoic mind or buddha nature. Practice is realisation.

The Tsungpao edition takes a different angle, concentrating more on the absolute nature of both good and bad thoughts but I think it is important to include the relative nature and karmic impact.

Questions

1. In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?
2. Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?
3. (Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense on p 150-152 (p156-158 on Kindle)?

Wishing you all a good week.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Onsho]

I don’t know about everyone else here, but these questions are SO much fun for me. Answering these questions with clarity and insight is so challenging and enjoyable. I’m loving this.

In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?
A statement with a projection, “Its been a bad winter.” Does it mean there was “too much” snow for their preference? Does that mean there was not enough snow for their preference? I could say its been a bad winter, meaning lots of snow AND be happy about it. There is so much good and bad, division, this and that involved in this way of thinking that It confuses how we experience the world. “Our nature is constantly transforming itself” and I vow to be vigilant to this, though delusion inexhaustible.

A statement without projection: It snowed overnight.

I always think of the “whats good and bad” parable in the midst of these conversations.

Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?
Practice: “to practice, we mean not to be obstructed by anything”I would gather that taking refuge could be as easy as JUST taking refuge.

Understanding: We take refuge in the dharmakaya, sambhogakaya and nirmāṇakaya. All Dharmas exist inside us because we have our own three buddha body . We are all Dharmas. The Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are not separate from ourselves. We are complete, nothing missing.

(Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense?
This ceremony is wonderful. I can see the eight fold path present in the five sticks. It seems symbolic of the greater journey to me as well, like its the order of monastic progression.

Morality, meditation, wisdom, liberation, knowledge of liberation.

Good ethics brings you to practice. So you learn to sit. You learn the Buddhadharma. You meet that openness of a mind unfettered. And one day teach it.

Have a great week everyone!
Gassho
Onsho
satlah

[Kokuu]

I don’t know about everyone else here, but these questions are SO much fun for me. Answering these questions with clarity and insight is so challenging and enjoyable. I’m loving this.

I am so glad this works for you, Onsho. Jundo tends to do this with his book club read-alongs so I just followed suit. It seems to work well in encouraging a deeper interaction with the text and allows us to see how much we understand and what remains to be clarified. For me, I am learning a lot from all of the answers as everyone sees things a little differently.

Answering the questions is, however, totally optional, so people are free to follow the read-along and not do that if they choose.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Hosui]

The passages in this week’s reading have been a revelation to me (as I vacation this week in chilly Boston with my son). I now realise why I bow and gassho throughout my day, usually in my head, and often to inanimate objects and animals. For instance, to the barista in the Starbucks I’m currently sat in, to the dogs tied up outside waiting for their owner, and to the amazing buildings of the financial district across the street, I’m not separate from any of them!

Since I don’t have to travel anywhere to see my original mind, which is pure as it is, the altar I prostrate towards is the coffee table I’m perched at right now; the traffic lights in the street outside are the bright votive candles; and the trees surrounding the lobby of the bank opposite are the flower offerings on this altar.

And to sweeten the air on this altar, to remain free of form, and to remain not confused, I offer the swirling incense of morality, meditation, wisdom, liberation, and knowledge of liberation to all beings on this portable altar, every single second of every single day of this life.

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah today

[Hoseki]

In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?


I'm not sure what Huineng is saying here. But I think he's talking about our karma. What I mean by karma is are individual differences attributable to personal tastes, traumas, socialization, structures of the brain ... ( I recognize this is may not be the standard definition of karma but I'm going to roll with it) that are a part of our experiences. We don't experience "things" in isolation, we experience a focal point (frequently an object) that exists with background or field. So we have a focus and a field. Our karma is part of that field. Depending on the type of object our karma will have a greater or lesser influence. For example, if I'm looking at an rock my karma doesn't contribute compared to when I look at my daughter. I think about them differently, I have a different history with them, I feel differently about them, and I can recognize how my daughter is like me as she has her own karma that influences how she experiences me. There is a way that she sees me as a focus with in the field of her own karma.


Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?

I think Huineng is saying that we should use our karma as dharma gates. It's our thoughts, feelings and sense of self that arise when we encounter objects (including thoughts.) We are trying to influence those aspects of experience rather than the specific object.


(Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense on p 150-152 (p156-158 on Kindle)?

I like them. I think Huineng is more or less outlining what he would expect a bodhisattva to be like. They don't need to have a perfect magical body, with ear lobes stretching down to the floor, or flying around and living 100 million billion kaplas, but they do need to embody these virtues (most of the time).

Gassho,

Hoseki

Sattoday

[Chikyou]

This is a great section! I enjoyed this one.

1. In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?

This is a really great thing to remember; it’s impossible to see ANYTHING in this world without our own lens, as sensory information is taken in by our body and processed through our brain, with information that our brain has gathered over the years of our lives. When I see a flat white marble surface with four artful wire legs, I recognize it as my end table, and know that it’s for putting things on. But if I had spent my whole life knowing it as a chair, I would be sitting on it instead. And the form of the end table wouldn’t change, but my understanding of it would be very different. Everything in life is like this.

1. Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?

I like the shift in perspective here. I know I personally often think of the Three Refuges os something outside myself, that I take refuge in. Huineng turned that on its head and made me understand that these things are not separate from me no I from them.

1. (Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense on p 150-152 (p156-158 on Kindle)?

I love it; rituals serve to remind us of certain things, and trigger the brain to internalize certain things. So while the ritual isn’t necessary to make the point, it makes the point very well and is very beautiful.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Choujou]

I am so glad this works for you, Onsho. Jundo tends to do this with his book club read-alongs so I just followed suit. It seems to work well in encouraging a deeper interaction with the text and allows us to see how much we understand and what remains to be clarified. For me, I am learning a lot from all of the answers as everyone sees things a little differently.

Answering the questions is, however, totally optional, so people are free to follow the read-along and not do that if they choose.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

Thank you for saying so Kokuu… I was starting to feel a little guilty for not getting things done… the truth of the matter for me is that this week has been extremely difficult in my personal life, and I don’t think I can participate this week. I just don’t have the capacity. I will still consider the sections and I will pick it back up next week.

Gassho,
Choujou

sat/lah today

[Tairin]

Firstly, I agree with Onsho. I appreciate the questions each week. Sometimes it is a little intimidating to try to capture my thoughts but I find that I dig a little deeper on the reading of if I need to reflect on it rather than just read.

• In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?

I gave this example for one of the recent chapters so I’ll reuse it here. My favourite example here is the object we call a chair. We see a chair and attach to it the concept that a chair is for sitting on. But from the perspective of another being, an ant, a chair isn’t something to sit on. It is something to crawl over. In fact the ant likely doesn’t differentiate the chair from the ground or a tree log.

• Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?

This was an eye opener for me. Like others have said, somehow even after years of practice when I think of the Three Refuges Buddha, Dharma, Sangha I see them as out there.

The statements that we have to shine our light inside makes sense in this context

This material body is an inn and not a fit refuge. But the three bodies I just mentioned are your ever-present dharma nature. Everyone has them. But because people are deluded, they don't see them. They look for the three-bodied tathagata outside themselves and don't see the three-bodied buddha in their own material body.

• (Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense on p 150-152 (p156-158 on Kindle)?

Generally I keep ceremony to a minimum in my practice but this quote reinforced the material I quoted above

Good friends, let these sticks of incense sweeten the air within you. Don't look for them somewhere else.

Tairin
sat today and lah

[Kokuu]

As usual, thank you for your answers. There was some deep stuff here.

Quoting Hoseki in relation to the first question:

In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?

I'm not sure what Huineng is saying here. But I think he's talking about our karma. What I mean by karma is are individual differences attributable to personal tastes, traumas, socialization, structures of the brain ... ( I recognize this is may not be the standard definition of karma but I'm going to roll with it) that are a part of our experiences. We don't experience "things" in isolation, we experience a focal point (frequently an object) that exists with background or field. So we have a focus and a field. Our karma is part of that field.

I think that is exactly part of karma. Every action has an effect on both the external world, and our own mindstream, to a greater or lesser degree. Yogacara Buddhism sees this as the accumulation of seeds in the store consciousness (Alaya Vijnana) which then colours/perfumes everything we see based on our prior experience and actions. Repetition of an action strengthens/grows a seed which can be done both for positive and negative mental states. True awakening comes when we see our projections as projections. It is not that they are not real but our own perspective is just that, our own perspective.

As Chikyou says:

This is a really great thing to remember; it’s impossible to see ANYTHING in this world without our own lens, as sensory information is taken in by our body and processed through our brain, with information that our brain has gathered over the years of our lives.

I am glad that many of you found the instruction to think about internal sources of refuge to be helpful. I do also, and need reminding of that.

Likewise, the ritual is something that resonated with me and some of you, but it doesn't matter if it doesn't.


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Taigen]

Questions

1. In reference to Huineng’s use of ‘objective states’, Red Pine points out that the world is not so much made up of objects but of our projections. Can you give an example of how we do that?
2. Instead of the three traditional refuge vows, Huineng instead invites us to take refuge within. What is he pointing to here in terms of practice and understanding?
3. (Bonus question!) What do you think of Huineng’s ceremony of five sticks of dharma-body incense on p 150-152 (p156-158 on Kindle)?

After a moderate veterinary emergency last week and starting a new job this week, I am endeavoring to get caught up on this discussion (while also being kind to myself for deprioritizing things that can wait!).

1. If you put red food coloring in white wine, people will report that it tastes like a red wine. Objectively, all that has changed is color, subjectively, your expectation causes your brain to report a different flavor that is unrelated to the color. Everything you "see" is actually a reconstructed image occurring within the neurons in your brain. You only have color vision in the central 10% of your optical field, and there are holes in it where you can't see anything at all but your brain fills those in based on expectation.

2. No one can do it for you!

3. This feels like it could be construed as a progress based model, which I don't think it is, but I think it warrants caution in presentation regardless. That being said, I like that it uses a non-visual metaphor for practice and the fruits of practice. In youth work, I often tell people that kids can "smell" when you are behaving inauthentically. This reminds me of that, its hard to say exactly what it looks like when someone is awake, but they have a certain odor....

Gassho,
Taigen
SatLah