The Platform Sutra: Sections 5 + 6 and commentary, p91-98 (96-104 on Kindle)

[Kaitan]

1. Why might the monks be so reluctant to submit a poem (something which many of you did here)? How do you feel about presenting your understand to a teacher? Is there a feeling of worrying about being ‘found out’ and do you relate to Shen-hsiu’s inner thoughts in part 6? I will note that after I started working with my koan teacher he said that it seemed I knew the answer to one koan but was fearful of presenting it and asked why. I said that I was afraid of him saying it was wrong and he replied that I would have to get used to that!

I feel a relief that I'm not alone with the feeling of not being good enough, it has different explanations, but at least I can see that as an opportunity to cultivate compassion and not be so hard on myself to ease that heavy burden. And it's specially difficult not to be hard on ourselves when dealing with physical illnesses.

1. In Shen-hsiu’s poem and (as we shall see) Huineng’s, a mirror is used to symbolise our mind. Does that resonate with you? Does thinking of the mind as a mirror help resonate with what you experience in Zazen?

Honestly not, my experience in zazen can be represented more like a cloud that is blown away by the wind and uncovers a bunch of monkeys running around.




stlah, Kaitan

[Kokuu]

Long post by necessity I fear:

The recent reading of the Platform Sutra brought me back to an often-revisited reflection, a sort of koan perhaps, that to me has always seemed a useful pointer when I get distracted from the ‘point’ of practice into other areas. This is the simple question: “what is it that looks?”

At the outset I will say that I have no idea if these observations tally with or diverge from Zen teachings, but I wanted to share them anyway, although perhaps I'm missing the mark. I was never one for taking other people’s word for things, that’s like watching somebody else eat a delicious meal, without the first-hand experience it’s all travellers’ tales. But I would be interested in hearing from other practitioners and from teachers in particular.

Having revisited the Gatha of the mirror stand, we learn, that the idea of a mirror that we continually clean, while not wholly accurate, is a useful tool to prevent regression among beginners. I interpret this as practices that continually clean the mind, of which there are many in various meditation systems, such as counting the breath etc, but it is clear from Hui Neng’s response that this is useful but not the point, he says “where do you get this dust?”
This seems pretty clear to me, ‘mind’ if it is the capacity for perception itself, includes that which is perceived. In the same way, in zazen we don’t block out the perceptions, since the world around us is part of zazen. Perceiving the mind is the whole point according to Bodhidharma’s sermons, so by perceiving the world we perceive the mind.

But then, it cannot be said that the world is subjective either. I see a live man, he observes the world and is part of it. When he dies, I see his body stop functioning, yet the world remains, just not from his point of view which has ceased to exist. So we can avoid that particular error, while on the other hand we know from experience, and to an extent from scientific experiment, that matter changes as it is observed, so neither is it objective. As Buddha put it, “we are what we think, good follows a good thought”, but here I start to move away from direct experience into what others have said, but only to illustrate.

In a previous post I said that I didn’t really understand the mirror idea. When I observe my ‘mind’, initially it’s more like looking out of the window of a darkened room. It’s my room, I know the contents, and it is separate from the world outside the window. However, when I look more closely, I see that the content of the mind is also in a way ‘the world outside’, that is, its more like the ‘dust on the mirror’ (so it’s also the mirror itself), and so is neither inside nor outside.

So, what do I observe? Well, clearly the observer and the observed are not really separate. There is a continuum of sorts, and a sense of separation is necessary to get along in life. But in fact the observed, be it trees, cars, thoughts, an ache or pains, emotions, are the mind. If I try to look for an invisible hand the causes these things I draw a blank because the mind is these things, it is both empty of any particular qualities, and yet birthing and comprising all of them at once, "form is emptiness, emptiness is form". So, from there what can I do except observe these things as the mind?

What do I do with the information? I learn something paradoxical, while I am my thoughts, at the same time my thoughts are not as real as I suppose, and the same goes for everything else that I might perceive. The world is both subjective and objective, subjective in that it depends on my observing it, yet objective enough that when I am in the ground it will carry on without me, so rather than the world being something for me to perceive, I am myself very much part of the world and in no way separate from it. I also know that ‘the mind’ is not something I can capture like a fish in a jar, since fish, jar, water, hand, are all mind, but like the wind is something that I can really only know through its actions: not the wind, not the flag, it’s the mind that moves, so in the act of observing I have to include the act itself in the observed category.

I can't put my observation any clearer than that, it changes with the observing.

Sattlah,
Gassho
Myojin

Thank you for your expansive thoughts, Myojin, and I think you are right that our experience is both subjective and objective at once, the proverbial 'not two' that is often referred to in Zen. Everything that exists is an expression of the whole, yet our own experience of it is unique and we cannot see through another person's eyes or think what they think.

In Buddhism, and Zen, for all of our focus on direct awareness, there are teachings that are relative, and those which point to the absolute. As you point out, Shen-hsiu's verse is a helpful relative teaching that will stop people regressing. Huineng points to the absolute.

I see the mirror as a metaphor for total awareness and, just as a physical mirror reflects our appearance whether it is smart and put together or dishevelled, so the mirror of awareness sometimes looks clear and focussed and sometimes looks scattered. In both cases we are just seeing what is. Often it feels less like a mirror to me and more like a space where experience comes and goes.

But that is still a relative teaching in the manner of 'mind is buddha' that still leaves us with concepts.

When I am stuck there, I remind myself 'no mind, no buddha' (or 'no mirror or mirror stand') which leaves nowhere to stand other than direct awareness of what is right here, right now, and subject and object dissolve into 'just this' or suchness (immo). You are right that there is nothing to capture, just this flow of experience with nowhere for the dust to alight. This is Zazen.

However, as you say, we are not separate from this world, and, as is pointed out in the Hyakujo's Fox koan (The Book of Serenity case 8), still subject to causality. Each of our actions has consequences.

So, how do we work with this? The answer that has arisen from my own practice is to be deeply intimate with life and respond to what arises with open hands and an open heart. Any more than that just seems to be concepts. Concepts and ideas can be helpful in pointing us in the right direction but are ultimately just ideas and concepts.

I would be interested to see what others have to say about this and feel free to respond.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Myo-jin]

In Buddhism, and Zen, for all of our focus on direct awareness, there are teachings that are relative, and those which point to the absolute. As you point out, Shen-hsiu's verse is a helpful relative teaching that will stop people regressing. Huineng points to the absolute.

This brings to mind 'expedient means'. The absolute is all very well and good, but sometimes we need to start with what we've got. I sat with a Rinzai group in Wakayama for about 6 months and learned sussokan breathing. The teaching there is that shikantaza is an advanced practice so more concrete methods are useful for us beginners. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems that the Soto way goes (theoretically at least) straight to the absolute, dust and all? Personally I need to take a run up before I can fly, but I think I see the point.

I see the mirror as a metaphor for total awareness and, just as a physical mirror reflects our appearance whether it is smart and put together or dishevelled, so the mirror of awareness sometimes looks clear and focussed and sometimes looks scattered. In both cases we are just seeing what is. Often it feels less like a mirror to me and more like a space where experience comes and goes.

Going from the idea of relative and absolute to this, that would mean that even the mind wandering (dust gathering), is just 'seeing what is', so perhaps the key to shikantaza isn't about some blissful clarity so much as about developing the equanimity to sit quietly even when the 'apparent' dust is gathering?

When I am stuck there, I remind myself 'no mind, no buddha' (or 'no mirror or mirror stand') which leaves nowhere to stand other than direct awareness of what is right here, right now, and subject and object dissolve into 'just this' or suchness (immo). You are right that there is nothing to capture, just this flow of experience with nowhere for the dust to alight. This is Zazen.

That I can relate to. Most thoughts seem to vanish as soon as they are noticed. Emotions take longer to dissipate, being rooted in the body, but on the whole becoming aware of a mental process has the effect of dissipating it. My go to as I said is to ask "who's looking?", or "who's asking?"

Thanks for this, it gives the opportunity to clarify and understand the experience of zazen more clearly, and gauge where my experience tallies.

Sattlah
Gassho
Myojin

[Kokuu]

This brings to mind 'expedient means'. The absolute is all very well and good, but sometimes we need to start with what we've got. I sat with a Rinzai group in Wakayama for about 6 months and learned sussokan breathing. The teaching there is that shikantaza is an advanced practice so more concrete methods are useful for us beginners. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems that the Soto way goes (theoretically at least) straight to the absolute, dust and all? Personally I need to take a run up before I can fly, but I think I see the point.

I think there are pros and cons to both approaches. I practiced in several Tibetan traditions before coming to Zen and those were very much based on a 'stages of the path' approach, beginning with shamatha and working through various stages of practice before arriving at Mahamudra/Dzogchen or Varjayana. However, I do like the fact that with Zen there is one practice and a person on their first day in a Zendo is doing the same practice as the abbot of Eiheiji. From day one we just sit with all that is and our base of awareness tends to develop just like it would with shamatha. As you probably know, Silent Illumination was the forerunner to Shikantaza and that basically equates to shamatha (the silent part) plus vipassana (illumination). So shikantaza is both the run up and the flying!

Going from the idea of relative and absolute to this, that would mean that even the mind wandering (dust gathering), is just 'seeing what is', so perhaps the key to shikantaza isn't about some blissful clarity so much as about developing the equanimity to sit quietly even when the 'apparent' dust is gathering?

I think you are spot on with that, and to see that the dust is just part of everything.

That I can relate to. Most thoughts seem to vanish as soon as they are noticed. Emotions take longer to dissipate, being rooted in the body, but on the whole becoming aware of a mental process has the effect of dissipating it. My go to as I said is to ask "who's looking?", or "who's asking?"

Yes, those phrases work like koans or Tibetan pointing out instructions in taking us away from conceptual understanding to look at what is actually there and how soild it is (or isn't!).


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-