The Platform Sutra: Section 2 + commentary (p73-83, Kindle p79-89)

[Furyu]

#1 - I don't have much to add really. His life situation would seem to make him an unlikely candiate for awakening, but then he is chosen as the sixth zen patriarch. It does make good storytelling.
#2 - I encoutered buddhism in my 20s and learned to meditate at that time. I explored new age for a bit but when I came in contact with Buddhism, I was hooked. I'm not sure which of the following came first in my readings, but these are some of the books that got me started, I think: Goddard's Buddhits bible, Entering the stream (Bercholz/ Kohn), Thich Nhat Hanh' s Peace is Every Step. After that I kept reading everything I could find and also became interested in Dzogchen and Mahamudra traditions. So... I don't know exactly when I encountered Dharma, but there it is. When did I think of myself as Buddhist? I don't know. Somewhere along the line It just happened, even though I could not practice anywhere or with anyone - Until I found Treeleaf.
I don't know about hearing words from a surta that opened my mind (I haven't had much opportunity) - but I do recall sitting in bed aged 11 contemplating the universe and infinity (I know, I was a weird kid) and that blew my mind. I never forgot that.

Gassho
Fūryū
Satlah

[Choujou]

Hello everyone,

Questions for reflection:
1. Of what importance to the sutra, and its association with prajnaparamita literature, if any, is Huineng’s poor background, his job selling firewood and his illiteracy?

For the poor background, I would say that this puts Hui-neng immediately in a humble position, one who has seen and felt the suffering of the world. I think most have touched on the firewood selling as a symbol of being an intermediary between the absolute and relative, so I don’t have much to add there. The fact that his story is in contrast to the Buddha’s in a way shows that the Dharma reaches everyone in all different “classes” and “levels” of society. It does not discriminate. For the illiteracy part, I think what may be of importance in regard to Hui-neng was his lack of intellectualizing the sutra. He heard it, he accepted it, he took it into his heart. He grasped the meaning without the words and concepts… he heard the words and saw directly to the truth, not some idealized, intellectualized, contrived version, but the actual truth itself, and felt the Dharma. This is how the Mahaprajnaparamita teaching is to be understood.

2.Did you have a moment such as Huineng hearing the Diamond Sutra being recited, that brought you to the dharma? Did you follow it immediately or did it take a few encounters?

I had a profound paranormal experience that led me to the Dharma… and it was not immediate. There were many twists and turns… I began to practice a different path for a time at the beginning which then led to a meditation experience I couldn’t describe. Years later after going back to school, I did a study on Zen… and the Buddha’s and all the master’s words made my experience make sense. I knew that I had found my path, but unfortunately had no teacher or school close by. I studied on my own for years, but hesitated to practice since I didn’t have a teacher. I didn’t want to develop bad practice or habits… so I was thrilled to finally find Treeleaf. So yes, it took actually many years to come to my practice.

Gassho,
Choujou

sat/lah today

[Henny]

1. Of what importance to the sutra, and its association with prajnaparamita literature, if any, is Huineng’s poor background, his job selling firewood and his illiteracy?

Huineng’s poor background and illiteracy were probably in his advantage, because the four lines from the final part of the Diamond Sutra refer to the ordinary, transient things in life, that everyone knows. You don't need advanced reading skills for this. Besides that it is said that just by memorizing the Diamond sutra they would see their natures and immediately become Buddha’s.
And in a summary of Huineng’s teaching it is said that ‘Your enlightened nature is originally pure. Just use this mind, and you will at once become a Buddha.
Due to his poor background and his work as a woodcutter and firewood seller, his attitude was already good and humble. He took care of his widowed mother, so he already had a Boddhisatva aspiration, and therefore he could easily understand this Dharma teaching.
Also, the woodcutter and firewood seller were often seen as intermediaires between the mundane world and the sacred world in Chinese society.

2. Did you have a moment such as Huineng hearing the Diamond Sutra being recited, that brought you to the dharma? Did you follow it immediately or did it take a few encounters?

Listening to the Diamond is very impressive. I can’t remember if I ever recited it. Maybe when I was in Plum Village for two weeks. But all the chanting of the monks and nuns made a deep impression on me (much of it was recited in Vietnamese). It will take some more encounters with the Dharma for me.

Gassho

Sat/lah
Henny

[Tairin]

1. Of what importance to the sutra, and its association with prajnaparamita literature, if any, is Huineng’s poor background, his job selling firewood and his illiteracy?

Although it doesn’t matter to me, I think that knowing Huineng’s humble origin would be encouraging for those who doubt that this path is for them. Maybe some people believe that there is something special about people like Shakyamuni and Huineng, something they had that we don’t.

1. Did you have a moment such as Huineng hearing the Diamond Sutra being recited, that brought you to the dharma? Did you follow it immediately or did it take a few encounters?

My initial thought was no but thinking about I realized that indeed I have had moments like that. Several in fact. Moments where suddenly the clouds vanish and the great blue sky becomes vivid. What people call “openings”. Everything just seems so clear. Hard to say more but if you’ve experienced it you know exactly what I mean. I expect that Huineng experienced that moment.


Tairin
sat today and lah

[Kokuu]

Dear all

Thank you again for some really great responses and discussion. The clear point of Huineng's background does seem to be, as most of you pointed to, that a poor education and background is not a hindrance to awakening, and even the lowest woodcutter can become the sixth patriarch. It may even be advantageous, in being the proverbial empty cup already, whereas others might have to do more 'unlearning' of what they know.

Hosui makes a good point that the flipside of Huineng in modern times would be an influential billionaire. We might well see them as an even less likely candidate for spiritual development than a dishwasher. In Bendowa, Dogen answers a question about whether lay people can really engage sufficiently with practice and Zazen and he points to several emperors and high-ranking ministers who make time for their sitting practice despite their elevated station, and in the Buddha's time he engaged with several kings who wished to learn from him.

Like many of you, I really liked Red Pine bringing in the fact that woodcutters and firewood sellers in China were often seen as intermediaries between the sacred and profane world.

Thank you also for bringing your recollections of how you came to the dharma, whether as a sudden encounter or gradually over time. It is interesting that there are many ways to find this path.

Tomorrow we will continue with sections three and four.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Chikyou]

I’m playing a bit of catch up here. For question 1, I have nothing to add because everyone else here has more than covered it already! As for how I came to the Dharma: like many others, I’ve been a bit of a perpetual spiritual wanderer. I’ve tried out many spiritual paths and nothing ever quite stuck. I often felt as though I had to do some heavy suspension of disbelief in order to follow a particular path, and pay lip service to a lot of things that didn’t make a lot of sense. So I was never fully invested in anything. I’d tried meditation, too, and that never held my interest either.

Then one day a few years ago, I was mindlessly scrolling Facebook after work and one of my friends had posted a meme list titled “the way of zen”. I knew nothing about zen, but I found something special in that meme so I went searching to see if zen really had anything to do with this list. Of course, there’s a book by that name by Allen Watts and that’s what I found. I bought a copy and started reading it. The more I read, the more intrigued I was; what Watts was saying really resonated with me. I was interested enough to start looking for a zen group to learn more, and that’s how I found Treeleaf. I never actually finished that book. But here I am, three years later. (Still practicing zazen daily and NOT feeling like I have to pretend to believe stuff I really don’t in order to play along).

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Dainei]

Of what importance to the sutra, and its association with prajnaparamita literature, if any, is Huineng’s poor background, his job selling firewood and his illiteracy?

If one cannot afford things because of poverty there is no attachment to wealth, selling firewood is a humble but useful profession and illiteracy is an example of not being prone to intellectualizing a teaching. Having these aspects is fertile ground for practicing the perfection of wisdom.

Did you have a moment such as Huineng hearing the Diamond Sutra being recited, that brought you to the dharma? Did you follow it immediately or did it take a few encounters?

Both experiences occurred but as a spectrum, some encounters were profound and ended dukka while others were subtle and chipped away at dukka. Yet like a pin ball game, i can't keep the dharma ball going and need to reset and start it again on the path or, more accurately, continuing on the path.

Gassho,
Dainei
Sat