Blue Cliff Record (Case 4) Te Shan Carrying His Bundle

[Chikyou]

I'm as confused, I think, as Hsueh Tao must have been by Te Shan's behavior. I can only imagine him thinking "what in the world..." Or maybe, he's seen this before and was thinking "not one of these jokers again".

"Exposed" - certainly Te Shan didn't hide anything with his actions; sometimes people show themselves for exactly who they are in that moment (now, whether Te Shan is a fool in EVERY moment, I don't know).

Jundo's proposed scenarios beg the question for me: is Te Shan enlightened, or a fool? Why not both?

Gassho,
SatLah
Chikyō

[Tom A.]

Curious Tom. How should Te Shan have exposed himself?

_/\_
sat/ah
matt

I don’t know without more info. Whatever the contingencies that led him to behave whatever way he did are not the important part of the story to me. It is that we are imperfect (and that’s not our fault) and so we beat ourselves up. I see being so overly harsh with ourselves as a way of struggling with reality. Desperately pulling on the Chinese finger cuffs so we can get any painful feeling over with instead of feeling uncomfortable and letting the discomfort be. Instead we struggle with it. In most cases, struggling against pain and discomfort is like saying: “Reality should be different than it is and I am not okay because I feel this pain and suffering.” This way of thinking is something we all do but is is not the most compassionate and (at least in my case) does not bring about honest and compassionate reflection that leads to change.

Gassho,

Tom

satLah

[Bion]

I'm late to this, but .. My feeling is Te'shan, in this particular case, out of maybe a misguided righteous anger was on a mission against what he perceived futile practice, that of the southern school. I don't know chronologically when this happened, if he had already met Lung-t'an or not, but I feel he wanted to make a big point and really just showed one side of things, one face of understanding. He came with a full cup, made a fool of himself and as he walked away he probably felt like he did not get to "challenge" the teacher enough, so he returned this time with full ceremony, presenting himself properly to Kuei Shan, making sure he was seen and not just ignored as a disruption, so he could make his point again. He wasn't wrong, but he wasn't right. That's my take but I probably need way more pondering of this...

Gassho
sat lah

[Houzan]

An enlightened master is an ass is a fool is a dope, and none of these, and the opposite. If enlightened, why care if they are or not? The real question: did they live gently?

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Ankai]

Neither was enlightened. The truth is in, "he adds frost to snow."
Kuei Shan is just frozen. Doing nothing. Te Shan adds more ice. Neither gave the other anything they needed.