Blue Cliff Record (Case 2) The Ultimate Path is Without Difficulty

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40713

    Blue Cliff Record (Case 2) The Ultimate Path is Without Difficulty

    We move on to Case 2.

    I cannot promise that the interpretations I suggest are, 100% guaranteed, the final and "correct" meaning of a Koan. I can only offer what seems the likely meaning based on my own understanding, and my research and exploration of what other commentators have offered. Even so (as today's Koan POINTER reminds) you cannot just intellectually take in somebody else's meaning, but ya really need to "feel it" yourself.

    So, let's dive in here:

    The POINTER, the big "intro," is trying to say something like, "This Wisdom is so big and boundless that even the universe seems small, even the sun and stars are swept in, even all the Zen masters with their shouts and sticks cannot express it, all the Buddha and Ancestors can't express the whole of it ... even words like "Buddha" don't capture it ... Superior people might get it beyond words, but newcomers just have to figure it out for themselves." Something like that.

    The CASE plays on the opening words of the Xin Xin Ming, a cherished writing in Zen, that illumination is not hard if we "just avoid picking and choosing," give up having likes and dislikes, preferences. Then clarity comes. BUT (here is the twist) if you separate then "picking and choosing" (bad) from "clarity" (good) ... you are picking and choosing, and lack true clarity!

    A real adept is so beyond "picking and choosing" that she does not mind picking and choosing or not picking and choosing ... or having "clarity" vs. "not having clarity" ... and this is the True Clarity. Thus, a real adept can find Clarity right in this sometimes muddled world which daily requires us to have preferences, likes and dislikes, and to make choices (big and small, sometimes really hard ones.) By not seeking "clarity," by not trying to "abide in clarity," there is Real Clarity.

    Chao Chou, when asked about how he does the above, responds something like, "I don't know (I just do it) ... I just bow and withdraw." This means something like, "you just know you are in this Real Clarity when you are ... and keep moving on down life's highway." It also resonates Bodhidharma's "I don't know" which is the ultimate, beyond separation, which nonetheless is this world of separation and choices to make. Both are not the ordinary "I don't know" of simple ignorance. Chao Chou says that we don't "abide within clarity," which may mean something like one cannot stand still and frozen in clarity, like a sailor frozen in the ice as if "stuck in glue" (as the COMMENTARY says), but must keep moving forward like a sailor meeting wave after wave, choice after choice, like and dislike after like and dislike. If you can do this, one is truly Clear and Beyond Preferences. People in Zazen sometimes feel a bit of peace and clarity and try to stay there, but that is not the real living Zazen of meeting wave after wave.

    The last paragraph of the COMMENTARY may mean something like, "Chao Chou could have answered the monk talking about things like "transcending relative and absolute, merging subject and object, or just giving a shout' ... and although it looks like he just said, "I don't know" ... he actually gave a darn good response of "ya just do it ... don't abide." I feel that response actually includes all the others just fine.

    The VERSE says that "in one there is all diversity, in all diversity (two, many) there is no duality." Clarity, tranquility, peace, timeless wholeness is found right in this world of separate things, difficulties, choices, which are also non-dual (mountains that are not mountains ... swelling waves and sailing boats, the rising and sinking sun and passing time, etc.) That is why the verse ends with traditional Zen symbols of seemingly frozen and lifeless things that are actually also life, growth, change: A skull with clear eyes, dead tree home to a living dragon. When one finds the wholeness right in the chaos of this world, one is truly Clear and free of Picking and Choosing. Sounds "difficult" but, as the Xin Xin Mind says, "The way is not difficult ... " when "ya just do it ... don't abide."

    QUESTIONS FOR YOU (Don't look at others' responses before responding): I am hoping for short answers. Not more than a short sentence or, even better, a phrase or two for each question. These are Koans, so pretty short and right to the point please.

    1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ... and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.

    2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.

    3- Do you like this Koan?

    Many versions of the following song, I picked one that I prefer ... made by UK medical workers during the Covid lockdown (which none of us liked or preferred) ... I bet that some of them had to make hard care choices each day ...
    .
    .
    Gassho, J
    stlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-24-2024, 10:26 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Bion
    Senior Priest-in-Training
    • Aug 2020
    • 4797

    #2
    1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ... and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.
    I don't like not having work come in, cause it means there is no stability. Because I worry about it, I try to fix it , but because I understand I can't control it, I enjoy the time off and use it for other good activities.

    2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.
    Watching children suffer in the midst of war and poverty, not knowing why it happens to them, not understanding how to end it or if it can be ended, we simply let go of trying to make sense of it and accept we can only do the next right thing beginning right here and right now.

    3- Do you like this Koan?
    Simply asking about it is enough

    Gassho
    sat and lah
    Last edited by Bion; 08-24-2024, 12:52 PM.
    "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40713

      #3
      Just to say, I was hoping for short answers. Not more than a short sentence or, even better, a phrase or two for each question. These are Koans, so pretty short and right to the point please.

      Gassho, J
      Stlah
      Last edited by Jundo; 08-24-2024, 10:15 PM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Bion
        Senior Priest-in-Training
        • Aug 2020
        • 4797

        #4
        Originally posted by Jundo
        Just to say, I was hoping for short answers. Not more than a short sentence or, even better, phrase or two for each question. These are Koans, so pretty short and right to the point please.

        Gassho, J
        Stlah
        i shall rewrite. I did not at all understand the request to give short statements..

        Gassho
        Sat and lah
        "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

        Comment

        • Matt Johnson
          Member
          • Jun 2024
          • 487

          #5
          Things I learned from case 2:
          4 Zen masters directly and indirectly involved in this case :

          Sengcan (Sōsan, Sēngcàn, Seng-ts'an): 529–606 CE

          Zhaozhou Congshen (Joshu, Jōshū Jūshin, Zhàozhōu Cōngshěn, Chao-chou Ts'ung-shen): 778–897 CE

          Xuedou Chongxian (Setchō Jūken, Xuědǒu Chōngxiǎn, Hsüeh-tou Ch'ung-hsien): 980–1052 CE

          Yuanwu Keqin (Engo Kokugon, Yuánwù Kèqìn, Yüan-wu K'o-ch'in): 1063–1135 CE

          This old thief is referring to his playground and soccer ball. Nice moves!

          As soon as you speak you have picked and chosen who is speaking.

          Thinking there is clarity in abiding is yet another thing to preserve or concept to hold on to.

          If you like or dislike you’re wrong. If you like being right you're wrong. If you like being wrong you're an idiot.

          A problem with or without a solution is NOT A PROBLEM!

          -------

          Jundo's questions are as far as Earth is from Heaven:

          1. Shouts and slaps like thunder and rain.
          2. Sometimes you have to portage.
          3. F-off sh*t stick!

          _/\_
          matt

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40713

            #6
            Originally posted by Matt Johnson

            This old thief is referring to his playground and soccer ball. Nice moves!

            2. Sometimes you have to portage.

            3. F-off sh*t stick!
            Same to you, buddy.

            I am asking you to stop being concerned about the notes. If you want to continue that, please stop playing here.

            Stop talking like some cheap imitation of a Daido parrot and bad A.I. translation. Thank you. Try again.

            Gassho, Jundo
            stlah
            Last edited by Jundo; 08-24-2024, 10:28 PM.
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40713

              #7
              Originally posted by Bion
              1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ... and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.
              I don't like not having work come in, cause it means there is no stability. Because I worry about it, I try to fix it , but because I understand I can't control it, I enjoy the time off and use it for other good activities.

              2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.
              Watching children suffer in the midst of war and poverty, not knowing why it happens to them, not understanding how to end it or if it can be ended, we simply let go of trying to make sense of it and accept we can only do the next right thing beginning right here and right now.
              No, seeing only one face of this world of time, work and war.

              Try again.

              Gassho, J
              stlah
              Last edited by Jundo; 08-24-2024, 01:31 PM.
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Matt Johnson
                Member
                • Jun 2024
                • 487

                #8
                Originally posted by Jundo

                Same to you, buddy.

                I am asking you to stop being concerned about the notes. If you want to continue that, please stop playing here.

                Stop talking like some cheap imitation of a Daido parrot and bad A.I. translation. Thank you.

                Gassho, Jundo
                stlah
                Feel free to edit my post if it is not to your liking.

                _/\_
                sat/ah
                matt

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40713

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Matt Johnson

                  Feel free to edit my post if it is not to your liking.

                  _/\_
                  sat/ah
                  matt
                  I am not going to edit anything. I asked you to ignore the notes, respond with the questions asked.

                  Thank you.
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Hoseki
                    Member
                    • Jun 2015
                    • 685

                    #10


                    1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ...
                    and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.


                    I like having a lot of alone time. But I'm married with kids. There are times they want me to be somewhere I don't want to go. But I just go anyway.


                    2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.

                    Waiting to get test results back from the Doctor. Nothing I can do will change the results so I just continue one with my normal routine as best I can.

                    3 - Do you like this Koan?

                    Not really, but I'm sure I will forget about it soon enough (hopefully I will retain the lesson!)

                    Hoseki
                    sattoday/lah
                    Last edited by Hoseki; 08-24-2024, 09:32 PM. Reason: I forgot the signature.

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 40713

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Hoseki

                      1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ...
                      and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.


                      I like having a lot of alone time. But I'm married with kids. There are times they want me to be somewhere I don't want to go. But I just go anyway.


                      2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.

                      Waiting to get test results back from the Doctor. Nothing I can do will change the results so I just continue one with my normal routine as best I can.

                      3 - Do you like this Koan?

                      Not really, but I'm sure I will forget about it soon enough (hopefully I will retain the lesson!)

                      Hoseki
                      sattoday/lah
                      Hi Hoseki,

                      You too, wonderful answers but too much responding just from the one perspective of this world of time, kids, places to be and go. sickness and health, normal and abnormal.

                      Please try again.

                      Gassho, J

                      stlah
                      Last edited by Jundo; 08-25-2024, 09:56 PM.
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                      Comment

                      • Houzan
                        Member
                        • Dec 2022
                        • 533

                        #12
                        1) To dislike chronic fatigue is one delusion. To dislike to dislike it, two.
                        2) How could I possibly be exhausted and brush my daughter’s teeth in the night without being exhausted and brush her teeth?
                        3) A trap I like to like!

                        Gassho, Hōzan
                        Satlah
                        Last edited by Houzan; 08-25-2024, 05:02 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Chikyou
                          Member
                          • May 2022
                          • 665

                          #13
                          Something I like: I like sleep (who doesn't?) but sometimes, I have a bad night when I don't sleep well at all. And when that happens, it's just a bad night. Nothing to it, it is what it is.

                          A cloudy moment in life: I have a lot of those lately, especially at work as demands being placed on us are sometimes very unreasonable. But when I take each moment as it is, I find I move through days gracefully and things just flow, regardless of whether or not they're ideal or enjoyable.

                          Do I like this koan? Yes I do. I feel it has important lessons for me.

                          Gassho,
                          SatLah
                          Chikyō
                          Chikyō 知鏡
                          (KellyLM)

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40713

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Houzan
                            1) To dislike chronic fatigue is one delusion. To dislike to dislike it, two.
                            2) How could I possibly be exhausted and brush my daughter’s teeth in the night without being exhausted and brush her teeth?
                            3) A trap I like to like!

                            Gassho, Hōzan
                            Satlah
                            Nice!

                            I think you somehow subtly convey that there is something sacred in these moments, that it is truly the whole of reality fatigued and coming to life (like the old dead tree springing forth with flowers) tiredly brushing in these hard moments as you and your daughter ... rather than just mere practical resignation, "let's make the best of it" acceptance or a stoic stiff upper lip.

                            Chikyo, I feel your heart still trying to find that too, something you-yet-beyond-you in just being sleepless and overworked. Something to ponder (and non-ponder) on the next sleepless night.

                            Gassho, J
                            stlah
                            Last edited by Jundo; 08-25-2024, 10:17 PM.
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Onkai
                              Senior Priest-in-Training
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 3079

                              #15
                              1 - Describe very briefly something you like (and maybe totally need to like in life ... like water and breathing!) or need to dislike (e.g., poison) ... and how one can also be free of "likes and dislikes" about it even while doing so.
                              Food. "medicine for nourishment for our practice."

                              2 - Describe a cloudy moment of life, one that does not feel very "nice and clear" at all ... and how Clarity comes from not preferring it to be clear.
                              Death of a loved one... feeling the grief but carrying on with life

                              3- Do you like this Koan?
                              Yes. To me it is about meeting life as it comes without preconceived ideas.

                              Gassho,
                              Onkai

                              美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
                              恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

                              I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

                              Comment

                              Working...