WHAT's OFTEN MISSING in SHIKANTAZA EXPLANATIONS ....

[Tom A.]

WHAT's OFTEN MISSING in SHIKANTAZA EXPLANATIONS ....

Yes, thank you very much. This deep, sacred feeling you speak of Jundo reminds me of a quote by Nietzsche on (I think) the concept of “amor fati (Latin for ‘the love of fate’)”:

“For nothing is self-sufficient, neither in us ourselves nor in things; and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event—and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed.”

“...in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed.”

Does that come close to the sacred feeling you speak of?

Gassho,
Tom

Sat




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[Tai Shi]

Well Jishin, I believe both God does not exist, god does exist. Or, is it God is both or just where does the Buddha fit into all
Of this? Answer. Who knows? The Power of the Infinite question. Do you exist?
Tai Shi
sat / lah
I help
The men I sponsor every day.
Gassho


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[Kotei]

Thank you for pushing this up.

Tom, I like the Nietzsche quote in this context and enjoy finding pointers to Shikantaza in philosophers' works.

To me, it feels like the ultimate truth, they are searching for, resides beyond words and thoughts, beyond concepts of "happiness, good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed" and their counterparts, in a 'simple' practice to be directly experienced.
Recently, I thought that the answer to Goethe's Faust, pondering about the symbol of the Macrocosm in his book, would be Shikantaza, replacing the search with total arrival, too:

How each to the Whole its selfhood gives,
One in another works and lives!
How Heavenly forces fall and rise,
Golden vessels pass each other by!
Blessings from their wings disperse:
They penetrate from Heaven to Earth,
Sounding a harmony through the Universe!
Such a picture! Ah, alas! Merely a picture!
How then can I grasp you endless Nature?
Where are your breasts that pour out Life entire,
To which the Earth and Heavens cling so,
Where withered hearts would drink? You flow
You nourish, yet I languish so, in vain desire.

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[sanjay]

This is amazingly clear writing. Thank you so much for this. This needs a wider audience.

[Inshin]

Thank you Jundo. That was beautiful. I finally get it (a bit more than before I hope) I was also thought zazen as just sit and breathe but somehow felt that it can't be so, it is not enough. So I looked in Rinzai tradition. Their explanation of tanden, much longer out breaths, etc seemed more practical. And the dedication of Rinzai masters made the Soto way appear lazy to me. I read about one elderly master who after having an accident wasn't able to sit in full lotus any more, so he broke his leg and died in lotus position. All I ever did was some yoga hip openings and still can only sit in Seiza position. From tomorrow I'll sit with a whole different attitude.
Gassho
Sat today

[Jundo]

... Their explanation of tanden, much longer out breaths, etc seemed more practical. And the dedication of Rinzai masters made the Soto way appear lazy to me. I read about one elderly master who after having an accident wasn't able to sit in full lotus any more, so he broke his leg and died in lotus position. ...

Hi Ania,

That kind of breath strategy go the other way, and turn Shikantaza into a tool, a method to attain some goal such as a certain highly concentrated energy. Master Dogen's instructions were to just breathe naturally ... deep from the diaphragm and not high up in the chest, as is just healthful to do ... but otherwise just at its own pace, letting short breaths be short, and long breaths be long.

And there is no need to break one's leg usually, for one can be in the "Lotus Posture" in the mind, when the mind is accepting and in equanimity, even if in a sick bed lying down.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Getchi]

To simply "be",
with no sense of becoming,
erases the idea of "being".

Happily, I "just Sit".



Gassho,
Geoff.
LaH
SatToday.

[Nickatnight]

I don't know where or when I heard this but,
"No need to Zazen. Must do Zazen!"

[Max]

Thank you for the clarity of this lesson. As a relative newcomer to Zen practice I have been somewhat confused by the various and numerous explanations of Zazen.
I feel I now have An answer, maybe not The answer but a clear direction
Gassho
Max
Aust.

[Suuko]

Thank you Jundo. That was beautiful. I finally get it (a bit more than before I hope) I was also thought zazen as just sit and breathe but somehow felt that it can't be so, it is not enough. So I looked in Rinzai tradition. Their explanation of tanden, much longer out breaths, etc seemed more practical. And the dedication of Rinzai masters made the Soto way appear lazy to me. I read about one elderly master who after having an accident wasn't able to sit in full lotus any more, so he broke his leg and died in lotus position. All I ever did was some yoga hip openings and still can only sit in Seiza position. From tomorrow I'll sit with a whole different attitude.
Gassho
Sat today

Longer out breaths have a scientific explanation. When you breathe out more than you breathe in, it triggers the parasympathetic nervous system which is responsible for calming down the body. I teach it to people who suffer from anxiety and depression.

However, in Shikantaza, I just breathe like Jundo said.

Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.

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[Meian]

Longer out breaths have a scientific explanation. When you breathe out more than you breathe in, it triggers the parasympathetic nervous system which is responsible for calming down the body. I teach it to people who suffer from anxiety and depression.

However, in Shikantaza, I just breathe like Jundo said.

Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.

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Guish,

Thank you for this information.

Gassho2, meian st lh

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[Jundo]

Longer out breaths have a scientific explanation. When you breathe out more than you breathe in, it triggers the parasympathetic nervous system which is responsible for calming down the body. I teach it to people who suffer from anxiety and depression.

However, in Shikantaza, I just breathe like Jundo said.

Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.

There do seem to be some serious medical studies that support this, and a few Zen teachers recommend it. So, I would not say not to do so. It is fine if it is helpful.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve

HOWEVER, whether doing so or not, it is vital to drop idea of engaging in some technique or trick to attain something. It is vital to drop all need for goals.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Suuko]

There do seem to be some serious medical studies that support this, and a few Zen teachers recommend it. So, I would not say not to do so. It is fine if it is helpful.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve

HOWEVER, whether doing so or not, it is vital to drop idea of engaging in some technique or trick to attain something. It is vital to drop all need for goals.

Gassho, J

STLah

Hi Jundo,

Indeed, it changes the brain waves when you consciously breathe out more than you breathe in. Hence, after 10 minutes, one reaches a state of no thought which some may call bliss.

However, this is not the point of Shikantaza. Coming back to the link you posted on the 10th precept, we are not trying to attain anything when we sit.

Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.



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[Jundo]

[Tobiishi]

I love how insightful writing on Zen tends (for me) to be like standing between two mirrors, gradually and minutely aligning them to bring the line of one's faces into a straight line, knowing that one can never reach that magical point... writing, thinking, talking about zazen is a worthy effort toward describing something that cannot be described down to the finest final point. This read was well worth the time, and enlightening in just the right measure, thank you

Kodo Tobiishi sat today
Gassho