I have long been confused regarding Shikantaza. What do I do exactly? Follow breath? Or follow thoughts? The concept seems loose to me and I am too ignorant to understand it seems. WHat is to be done in the mind during shikantaza?
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Perhaps, for you, it might be a good idea to start with breath counting. It is not necessarily shikantaza, but it can help to ground the body and mind before letting the counting go and dropping off into just simple awareness.
In shikantaza zazen, we do not follow anything in particular, neither thoughts or breath, but instead just sit in the middle of it all, like a clear blue sky with clouds sometimes passing through.
A long time ago I saw a video with Norman Fischer describing it as sitting with the feeling of being alive. I don't think he meant to concentrate of the feeling of being alive, but to simply sit as we are.
Gassho
Sat, lah求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.Comment
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Johnsoriano,
You might want to take a look at the excellent talks that Jundo put together for beginners. They can be found in: in the Forum The BEGINNER's PLACE -> A SERIES OF TALKS FOR NEW FOLKS
This post by Jundo is a guide to the talks. I think you will find them very helpful.
The section titled "SET II - BASIC INTRODUCTION TO "JUST SITTING"" may be particularly useful.
Gassho, Shinshi
SaT-LaH空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
There are those who, attracted by grass, flowers, mountains, and waters, flow into the Buddha way.
-Dogen
E84I - JAJComment
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Geika,
No! No breath counting!
That is not Shikantaza, and not our way around here at all!! I do not recommend that for anyone except, perhaps, on days where there has been some particularly heavy storm in the thoughts and emotions (e.g., a particularly traumatic or unsettled day), and someone really needs an anchor.
There are groups that recommend breath counting, but it is almost always as a preparation for Koan practice or a concentration meditation. Please, no!
John, did you get the Welcome message which I sent you? There are two places to go to answer your question:
If you have any question about anything that you encounter there, please let me and everyone know here.If you have never sat much Shikantaza Zazen before, here is an introductory Guide to Basic Sitting (PDF) (LINK)
However, for --all-- folks new to Treeleaf whether long experienced or new to practice, we ask you to watch our TALKS FOR BEGINNERS (we're all always beginners!) video series (there are 22 talks in the series). We ask that you do so even if you have been practicing a long time in order to get a taste of the particular style of Shikantaza Zazen emphasized here in our Sangha:
LINK to TALKS FOR BEGINNERS (we're all always beginners) VIDEO SERIES
Gassho, Jundo
STLahLast edited by Jundo; 11-26-2021, 12:47 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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By chance, I happened to be looking at some things that Soto folks say about breath counting. Dogen Zenji wrote this, long ago [Eiheikoroku 5-390] ...
Well, Dogen was not one to mince words,... In the lesser vehicle originally there were two gateways, which were counting breaths and contemplating impurity. In the lesser vehicle, people used counting to regulate their breath. However, the buddha ancestors’ engaging of the way always differed from the lesser vehicle. A buddha ancestor said, “Even if you arouse the mind of a leprous wild fox, never practice the self-regulation of the two vehicles.” ...
, but Okumura Roshi says it more gently here:
Gassho, JundoObserve breathing during zazen, but do not try to manipulate the rhythm or depth of the breath. Breathe gently and silently through the nose without attempting to control or manipulate the breathing. Let the breath come and go naturally so that you forget all about it. Simply let long breaths be long and short ones short. On inhalation the abdomen expands naturally like a balloon inflating, while on exhalation simply let it deflate. ...
In some Rinzai and Tibetan teaching lines it is recommended that one feel a sense of strength in the abdomen in breathing, that the exhalation be done in a very slow smooth and gradual way or a very slight contraction of the anus on exhalation (this should be so slight it may be more felt as an intention than as a physical contraction) be performed. While these recommendations have their origin in energy yogas (Kundalini and Qigong) some Tibetan and Rinzai teachers recommend their use. Theravada and Soto teachers in general do not recommend this approach. Soto especially emphasizes just observing the breath as it is without trying to improve it in any way. Specifically, Dogen states that counting the breath and following it are not quite zazen and recommends avoiding their use. Some lineages (mostly Rinzai) recommend a long period of breath counting before simply practicing zazen, others (mostly Soto) do not. ...
Difficulties and Expedients
... If you find you are struggling and need a suggestion as to what to do, it is possible to follow or count the breath among other things.
Counting the breath may be done on inhalations, exhalations or both depending on what you find useful. Count from one to ten and then simply start over again at one. Be aware of the count and the breath and try to maintain continuous awareness of both. If you find that you are constantly losing the count, try counting to five.
... Remember these are only for use in difficulty, the norm of awareness for zazen is to be awake without preference to everything in the universe regardless of whether it is inside or outside the body. Be awake to everything over and over again, that is the essential art of zazen.
Shikantaza: An Introduction to Zazen published by the Kyoto Soto-Zen Center
https://www.sotozen.com/eng/library/...f/soto_zen.pdf
STLahLast edited by Jundo; 11-26-2021, 12:45 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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I remember years ago, when I first started sitting, having no one to teach me and not knowing where to look for guidance, I stumbled upon many flavors of “sitting” coming from different teachers. Shikantaza naturally occurs, I feel, with practice, time and diligence and is tremendously difficult to break down for someone else, cause how do you explain “think the thought of zazen” to someone else? [emoji2957] Nowadays while I treasure my path to this point, I also understand the profound importance a teacher has, and can appreciate how skillfully you perform that task! [emoji2309]
[emoji1374] SatToday"Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - HongzhiComment
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