Dropping the Mike on "Dropping Body-Mind"

[Junkyo]

Thank you Jundo!

Gassho,

Junkyo
SAT

[sreed]

This isn’t quite the right place for this question so if someone could point me to the correct thread...

Suddenly I’m having the worst time with keeping my eyes open during Zazen. I would definitely get bonked with the stick... my eye lids become lead and I have to close them. Then I am spending too much time fussing with myself to try to keep them open that I’m not really feeling like I’m zazening correctly. I’ve tried different times of day and nothing is making an impact. Perhaps I just need to rest more in my life in general. I’m starting a new business and have been working intensively. Thank you
Sara
ST

[Jundo]

This isn’t quite the right place for this question so if someone could point me to the correct thread...

Suddenly I’m having the worst time with keeping my eyes open during Zazen. I would definitely get bonked with the stick... my eye lids become lead and I have to close them. Then I am spending too much time fussing with myself to try to keep them open that I’m not really feeling like I’m zazening correctly. I’ve tried different times of day and nothing is making an impact. Perhaps I just need to rest more in my life in general. I’m starting a new business and have been working intensively. Thank you
Sara
ST

You are probably just sleepy. It is important to get enough sleep, not only for Zazen. This is also why Zen folks through the centuries love their tea!

We have had a few threads with some tips, and maybe something can help:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7734-Zazen-when-sleepy-ZZZZZZzzzzzz&p=43274&viewfull=1#post43274

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14155-Zazen-while-sleep-deprived

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13207-Keep-dozing-off

In the really dozing off case, walk some Kinhin instead of sitting when getting very tired.

Gassho, J

STLah

[sreed]

This is very helpful. Thank you, Jundo.
Sara
ST

[Onka]

Sara, while I've only been sitting zazen for just under a year the game changer for me was in the breathing. I noticed that the times I either dozed off or nearly dozed off my breathing had become relaxed and shallow. When I do the deeper yogic breathing from the diaphragm I tend to stay more alert. When I first started sitting a teacher suggested that when I needed to 'reset' I should focus on my breath, get back on track with the yogic breaths counting each exhale. I was told that I should never get to 10 and that if I did it meant I was focusing on my breathing instead of just sitting. To date I've only ever gotten to 4 before I had essentially reset. I also find that not being completely comfortable also helps.
Not sure if this is helpful or even sound advice tbh but hey...
Gassho
Anna

Sat today/lent a hand

[sreed]

Sara, while I've only been sitting zazen for just under a year the game changer for me was in the breathing. I noticed that the times I either dozed off or nearly dozed off my breathing had become relaxed and shallow. When I do the deeper yogic breathing from the diaphragm I tend to stay more alert. When I first started sitting a teacher suggested that when I needed to 'reset' I should focus on my breath, get back on track with the yogic breaths counting each exhale. I was told that I should never get to 10 and that if I did it meant I was focusing on my breathing instead of just sitting. To date I've only ever gotten to 4 before I had essentially reset. I also find that not being completely comfortable also helps.
Not sure if this is helpful or even sound advice tbh but hey...
Gassho
Anna

Sat today/lent a hand

Anna, this is great advice. I was trying to go back to my breath and count but still taking shallow breaths. Deeper sounds better.
Thank you,
-Sara
ST

[Jundo]

Anna, this is great advice. I was trying to go back to my breath and count but still taking shallow breaths. Deeper sounds better.
Thank you,
-Sara
ST

Yes, breathe from the diaphram or, as we say traditionally, the Hara (the area just below the navel) as if the breath was actually originating from there.

Also, stretch the neck straighter and lengthen the spine a bit (i.e, don't slouch).

Also, it may sound like blasphemy to the "Zazen is about time quantity" crowd, but if you are really tired on a certain day, do not forget that Zazen is not about "long or short." A short sitting is fine, even for some moments, if you forget all about measures of time. Get some rest! I talk about that here ...

How Long To Sit? INTRODUCING the 15－Minute Sit

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14882-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2814%29&p=189091#post189091

and

Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

Gassho, J
STLah

[Onka]

Thank you Jundo.
I didn't know about the Hara. And yes, time is interesting in regard to sitting.
I used to metaphorically beat myself up for not being able to sit for extended periods of time. It's only been very recently that I can say to myself that it's ok that I didn't sit for a certain amount of time. It also helped that with the meditation timer I use I use 3 bells to begin and set a finish bell for some ridiculous amount of time later. That way the pressure of achieving a certain goal is gone. If i sit for 40 minutes, great. If i sit for 10 minutes, just as great.
Thanks again Jundo.
Gassho
Anna

Sat today - 33 minutes lol

[Tai Do]

Thank you, Jundo, for this lesson.
Sara, some months ago Jundo recommended me to drink some tea before zazen. I made this into a daily habit, although some days I drink coffee instead. Perhaps it can also help you.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

Thank you, Jundo, for this lesson.
Sara, some months ago Jundo recommended me to drink some tea before zazen. I made this into a daily habit, although some days I drink coffee instead. Perhaps it can also help you.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

But then when you get older and drink tea before Zazen, you are awake but then need to run to the bathroom! Oh, ya can't win!

But, when sitting just sitting, when walking Kinhin just walk, when running to the bathroom ... just run!

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

Yes, breathe from the diaphram or, as we say traditionally, the Hara (the area just below the navel) as if the breath was actually originating from there.

Also, stretch the neck straighter and lengthen the spine a bit (i.e, don't slouch).

Also, it may sound like blasphemy to the "Zazen is about time quantity" crowd, but if you are really tired on a certain day, do not forget that Zazen is not about "long or short." A short sitting is fine, even for some moments, if you forget all about measures of time. Get some rest! I talk about that here ...

How Long To Sit? INTRODUCING the 15－Minute Sit

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14882-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2814%29&p=189091#post189091

and

Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

Gassho, J
STLah

Yes, I learned a while ago that I'm usually unable to do longer zazen with chronic illness (the deep pain and lingering side effects aren't worth the struggle).

However, it was Jundo's suggestion to do shorter zazen and to try a few short sessions a day, which is how I evolved into mini-sessions and was able to develop a regular daily practice. It works for me.

Gassho2
Kim
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk