Seeking Buddha, Non-Seeking Buddha

[Michael Joseph]

Much gratitude, Jundo. Can you post this every Monday? ☺

Gassho,

Michael

Sat today.

[Washin]

Thank you, Jundo

Gassho
Washin
sat today

[Doshin]

Sounds good to me. Thank you.

Gassho
Doshin
St

[Seishin]

Deep bows and many thanks for this teaching.

[arnold]

Thank you Jundo. I know that faith can be an unpopular term with many people including practitioners of Zen but can you talk a bit about the role of faith in Shikantaza. It would seem that to give up seeking awakening and truly "just sit" in Shikantaza one must have unshakable faith that awakened nature is already, and always, present...nothing to do here but express what is already there. Otherwise, you can't help but start grasping at some experience, "better state" or even better practice. I wouldn't say that this is the type of faith that we would call blind faith. I think it is something that arises when you have a good taste of Zazen that can be strengthened or shaken over time. I am not sure how to articulate my basic question other than maybe to just ask: Do you see faith as an important part of Shikantaza, and, if so, how does one strengthen such faith?

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo. I know that faith can be an unpopular term with many people including practitioners of Zen but can you talk a bit about the role of faith in Shikantaza. It would seem that to give up seeking awakening and truly "just sit" in Shikantaza one must have unshakable faith that awakened nature is already, and always, present...nothing to do here but express what is already there. Otherwise, you can't help but start grasping at some experience, "better state" or even better practice. I wouldn't say that this is the type of faith that we would call blind faith. I think it is something that arises when you have a good taste of Zazen that can be strengthened or shaken over time. I am not sure how to articulate my basic question other than maybe to just ask: Do you see faith as an important part of Shikantaza, and, if so, how does one strengthen such faith?

Hi Arnold,

Yes, many people might prefer the word "trust" to "faith," because many folks bring baggage about that "faith" word when coming from their childhood religion. So, "trust" is fine. I think there is such an element of "trust" that one's sitting is the only act to do in that time of sitting, the one place to be. Yes, one must trust that there is an aspect to reality whereby there is something good, with nothing to be added or taken away. Yes, one way to say this is our "Original Enlightenment," and we should trust in that fact.

However, one might also call it just a "non-self fulfilling proposition" (Get the joke, "non-self" . It is a matter of your own heart, and making it true by feeling it is true. If one just convinces oneself that "this is the only act to do" and psyches oneself into "there is no other place to go," that is also fine. The "self" wants to run here and there, fill this hole and that, and is rarely satisfied. We are so used to running and chasing, that it is okay if one merely pretends that it is so ... because then it becomes so. It is a kind of "fake it until one makes (realizes) it" Practice. In other words, if you make yourself feel in your heart that "this sitting is all fulfillment, there is nothing lacking" then, ipso facto, there is nothing lacking in your heart. You feeling so makes it so, because who is the judge of "something is lacking" except you in your subjective heart?

But this Practice is not "blind faith" either. It is more a "proof is in the pudding" Practice. For a time, like any new thing, one might have to trust someone's advice and give it a try. But, fairly soon, one should begin to see the effect in one's life of sitting so. It is a medicine for much of what causes us to run around chasing this and that, feeling lack and dissatisfaction.

I spoke about it about more here, in this old essay ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6267-A-Non-Self-Fulfilling-Prophesy&p=22153&viewfull=1#post22153

Gassho, J

[arnold]

You see ... it is the little "self" that needs, feels "lack", needs to "get" somewhere other than where it is, cannot be still. "Just Sit" Zazen without seeking to find ... and the "self" is put out of a job, body-mind dropped away.

Thank you Jundo. I read that other essay/talk and the quote above struck me. Dogen's, "Shinjin Datsuraku" ("body mind dropped away") used to seem so mysterious to me, something so dramatic and grandiose. The sort of thing one can't help but seek and grasp at. Now I am not trying to say that I totally get it, but it has begun to makes some sense to me over the last few years. There are these basic moments that come up that can be very beautiful but not really dramatic (that is, they don't overwhelm or throw you off balance and make you wax rhapsodic). A brief time just this morning was like this. I had sat and then took the dogs outside and there were over 30 Gold Finches shooting about the trees behind my house...down to the ground then back up again, over and over, each flying on its own path at its own time. I noticed them and simply didn't need anything else. It was funny because I love birds and have seen things like this many times, so it wasn't that something novel was happening; the birds were just living their lives, so were the trees and the dogs, the rain was falling and the air was cold. Then I realized that I was as happy as I had ever been and thought to myself, "who could ever need a moment more wonderful than this". When it was time to take the dogs inside I quietly went back inside; I didn't need to linger and watch the birds. I just went inside playing with the dogs along the way.

Of course, this very simple but beautiful way of experiencing life is pretty transitory for me, but I think it's a little taste of something very special and I think that we all have these kind of moments. For me, noticing them allows me to grasp less even at times when I realize that I don't have it all figured out, or have been a jerk to someone. I also notice that this kind of beauty only happens when I am not grasping. I am beginning to understand that whether we are on the cushion or elsewhere, this warm-hearted ease only arises if we are not, just as you say Jundo, "seeking Budda" or seeking anything else.

Thank you so much Jundo for your generosity in sharing your experience and insight and thank you to the whole Treeleaf Sangha for your practice. It is nice to be back!

[Jundo]

Thank you, Arnold. Such moments are precious. They may be transitory, as you say, but we can learn to bring them into our everyday, and learn to experience things like that more and more.

Also, I just read a thesis (I can't link to it) which discussed two kinds of "faith" or "trust" in Zen.

One is ordinary "trust" like a small infant to its mother: We may not understand much about what is going on, or who these shapes are that keep putting food in our mouth, yet we trust and allow it to happen, go with the flow. Not like we have much choice in the matter, but enjoy the ride.

But the other "faith" or "trust" in Zazen is really interesting, because it completely rewrites the usual sentence "I trust it" to remove the "I" and remove the object "it" and just leave the "trust" right through subject and object. That is cool.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[arnold]

Just sitting...Just trusting...Just faith...Faith...
I like it.

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,
Arnold

Sat today

[Meitou]

Arnold, another word I find useful when people have a conditioned problem with the word faith is confidence.
This week for me was snatched and random sits wherever and whenever. At bus stops, on buses, hospital waiting rooms, over coffee in bars, waiting for my husband to have a cataract op. All noisy, buzzing places full of people. I didn't once, in the whole week, get near the cushion, rakusu or shrine. Yet I never thought oh no, I'm not keeping up my practice, I'm going wrong etc because I had confidence - confidence in the dharma's presence, confidence that the cushion was waiting, confidence that my practice was complete, right there, whatever I was doing,whoever I was with. It couldn't have been any more or less right.
In my head each morning I recited the last part of the Metta verse, seeing how it relates to life every moment of every day. I felt confident that I was embracing all conditions of life as well as I could - and the opportunities were endless!
Confidence/trust/faith - yes, these are just words, but sometimes finding the right word to link in to, that resonates in some way, can make all the difference.
Thank you for bringing this up Arnold.
Gassho
Meitou
Satwithyoualltoday on the cushion again.

[Getchi]

Gassho Meitou




Geoff
SatToday
LaH

a

[Tairin]

Meitou, your post nicely reflects the Treeleaf tag line “All of life is our temple”. Last week I had some surgery that took me out of my routine. I also didn’t get near the cushion for a few days but nevertheless I sat. Sitting on the cushion. Sitting on the bus. Sitting in a waiting room. Sitting in a hospital bed. Just sit.


Tairin
Sat today & LAH

[Jundo]

Meitou, your post nicely reflects the Treeleaf tag line “All of life is our temple”. Last week I had some surgery that took me out of my routine. I also didn’t get near the cushion for a few days but nevertheless I sat. Sitting on the cushion. Sitting on the bus. Sitting in a waiting room. Sitting in a hospital bed. Just sit.


Tairin
Sat today & LAH

[Jakuden]

Meitou, your post nicely reflects the Treeleaf tag line “All of life is our temple”. Last week I had some surgery that took me out of my routine. I also didn’t get near the cushion for a few days but nevertheless I sat. Sitting on the cushion. Sitting on the bus. Sitting in a waiting room. Sitting in a hospital bed. Just sit.


Tairin
Sat today & LAH

Thank you for your practice Tairin, hope your recovery is going well!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[aprapti]

thank you, Meitou.


Coos

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