SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: gratitude & Great Gratitude

[Jundo]

I have a question about this (and maybe compassion) : why be grateful, why be compassionate, on the relative level ? Because well, grateful or not, we are still part of the same stuff, wether we want it or not.

I don't really understand why acting kindly is better than acting like a jerk, from the buddhist's philosophy point of view.

Hello Ugrok,

My answer is too simple perhaps.

I believe we should act with relative compassion because it helps make a better world, town and family when we act toward others with compassion. Acting with compassion helps free our own heart too.

When we are driven by excess selfishness and desire, anger, jealousy, uncaring or divisive thinking, the world becomes that much more filled with ugliness and our own heart tends to grow cold and to become chained by that desire and hate. Compassion leave our heart warm and open, better able to see the Dharma.

Yes, we act with compassion because we are all connected in this world, all are one. We are connected and share this world, all as one, both in some absolute and relative view.

That is my too simple answer.

Gassho, J

[Ugrok]

Hello Ugrok,

My answer is too simple perhaps.

I believe we should act with relative compassion because it helps make a better world, town and family when we act toward others with compassion. Acting with compassion helps free our own heart too.

Hello and thanks for the answer.

But how do we know if we are really acting with compassion, from a buddhist point of view ? Since it is said in buddhism that everything we feel or see or anything is just a representation of some sort, then it means that nothing can guarantee that we act with compassion, even our strongest feeling ! So in the end, we can only act with our own, personal, conditional values ; just like a kamikaze who runs a plane in a tower, thinking and being conditioned to feel that it is the best thing he can do for the world.

On what do the precepts stand ? Who says "don't steal", on what truth is it based ?

Gassho,

Ugrok

PS : an answer, maybe (tell me if i'm wrong) : this is maybe why dropping beliefs of all sorts is important. With zazen practice, you lose the attachment to beliefs. So you are in a state where your actions are most likely to be in adequation with the "world as it is" (whatever it is). So maybe the question is not "why do this or that" ; it's just that when you practice being without beliefs, then you naturally don't do certain things. (?)

[Myosha]

Hello,

Personally, this helps:

When the mind's as is, circumstances also
are as is;
There's no real and also no unreal.
Giving no heed to existence,
and holding not to non-existence -
You're neither saint nor sage, just
An ordinary man who has settled his affairs.

LaymanP'ang


Gassho,
Myosha

[Shokai]

_/\_

[Jundo]

Hello and thanks for the answer.

But how do we know if we are really acting with compassion, from a buddhist point of view ?

Yes, I feel that you are overthinking this from the point of Zen Practice. Our Three Pure Precepts (which we are reflecting on this week for Jukai) are too simple. In one formulation, they say ...

Seek to cease to do harm.

Seek to do only good.

Seek to do good for others.

What is harm. what is good, what is good for others? Hard to say in any one case, and so often things are very ambiguous, with a mix of good and bad.
However, the violence and killing of crashing a plane intentionally is not good because of the intentional taking of life through anger and divisive thinking. It might be someone's political protest, but there are better and gentler ways to do so (as Gandhi and MLK taught).

What is good, what is evil? No hard and fast rules, so generally we follow our hearts and the examples set in Dharma stories and the like.

My too simple answer.

Now, please sit, dropping all measurement of good and evil, all the philosophical analysis (there is a time and place for that in life, but not in Zen Practice) ...

Then, rising up from the Zafu, please try to do good and to fight evil. All is Zazen.

Gassho, J

[Ugrok]

Thank you !

Edit : i found a great article on the apparent contradiction between detachment and compassion : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...ris/bl141.html

[Jundo]

Edit : i found a great article on the apparent contradiction between detachment and compassion : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...ris/bl141.html

Perhaps more than "detachment", the Mahayana of later Buddhism came to emphasize "non-attachment" ... a kind of attachment without being imprisoned, and attachment and freedom from attachment at once!

I sometimes write this ...

I would say that our practice is about "non-attachment", not "detachment". We need not be "cold" toward life or people. I might give as an example our loving deeply those we are with when with them, crying when they leave us ... yet simultaneously being open and allowing of the change, also content to let go. Perhaps it is the way we deeply embrace an experience when happening, but moving on and not clinging to it when it is over. We savor our ideas and feelings, but don't become their prisoner.

I would also say that we feel Compassion toward all sentient beings, perhaps "love" the human race and all sentient beings. We love all equally. However, I would not say that there is call to love each and every person we encounter equally. This is not a contradiction although it may sound like one.

One can experience human emotions richly, fully present and savoring life but without getting caught in excess and clinging ... all while simultaneously encountering the freedom of the Buddha Realm beyond and right through all thoughts and emotions. For example, we can love and be fully there with and for those we love, able to grieve when we lose them too ... all while not falling into the excesses of clinging and sorrow ... all while encountering a certain realm of Love and Togetherness in which all questions of "two people" and gain or loss and grief are dropped away.

Again, do not philosophize overly about such things, but come to experience and put them into Practice!

Gassho, J

[Ugrok]

Thank you jundo ! I do my best to practice, and sometimes this brings questions of course...

[Byokan]

Thank you Jundo Yes, I think I see. Setting aside the self and all judgements and preferences. Shining in with and as all that manifests and passes. Realizing the no-sided-ness of the coin. This Great Gratitude embraces without holding, lets go without any separation. Emptiness dancing.

Then to the work of saving all sentient beings. Those words of Layman P'ang really ring my bell, thank you Myosha!

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jika]

[Frank]

Well, after a week of holiday drama, fighting off a terrible cold and kidney stones..
I have sat every day, and attempted to be thankful for all that these challenges have brought me.
i have friends and family to smile with, amidst the drama.
i have money for medicine, and am able to breathe....amidst the cold symptoms.
i have the ability to use the toilet, to move my kidney stones along.

i am getting better every day, and have seen the sunrise and set....and hopefully, have reflected that light to,others along my path.....

and i am thankful


Gassho
Frank

[Kyotai]

Well, after a week of holiday drama, fighting off a terrible cold and kidney stones..
I have sat every day, and attempted to be thankful for all that these challenges have brought me.
i have friends and family to smile with, amidst the drama.
i have money for medicine, and am able to breathe....amidst the cold symptoms.
i have the ability to use the toilet, to move my kidney stones along.

i am getting better every day, and have seen the sunrise and set....and hopefully, have reflected that light to,others along my path.....

and i am thankful


Gassho
Frank

It is a beautiful thing to experience life's difficulties and still appreciate and be thankful for the opportunity.

My father had kidney stones three times. I took him for some of his laser treatments.

As I recall, it was not much fun [emoji51] though, he never complained.

Gassho, Kyotai
Sat today

[Byokan]

Well, after a week of holiday drama, fighting off a terrible cold and kidney stones..
I have sat every day, and attempted to be thankful for all that these challenges have brought me.
i have friends and family to smile with, amidst the drama.
i have money for medicine, and am able to breathe....amidst the cold symptoms.
i have the ability to use the toilet, to move my kidney stones along.

i am getting better every day, and have seen the sunrise and set....and hopefully, have reflected that light to,others along my path.....

and i am thankful


Gassho
Frank

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Washin]

Grateful for this talk being re-posted.
Thank you

Gassho
Washin
st/lah

[Tairin]

Nice that this talk resurfaced today. I’ve been quite sick all week long. Very low on energy, needed a lot more sleep than normal. It has been a tough week. I am normally in great health but this week I was even too sick to sit for a few days. Instead of getting down on myself I’ve been using this as an opportunity to be grateful for this illness because it reminds me of my normal good health that I can at time take for granted. I know there are many who are sick with no chance to recover. I am grateful that my down time is measured in days rather than months and years. To those that suffer I offer metta.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today