SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: I AM-NOT-NOT-AM-AM A ZEN ARTIST CLERGY !

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39474

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: I AM-NOT-NOT-AM-AM A ZEN ARTIST CLERGY !

    My Dharma Bro. BRAD WARNER has written (HERE) that we are not Zen "Clergy" ... or at least, he is not "Clergy". He writes ...


    Zen has to be just a little bit dangerous. If it’s not, it ceases to be Zen. The reason that Zen can go as deeply as it does into the question of what it means to be truly human comes in a large part because it’s not entirely safe. The safer, more rule-bound, more structured and organized it becomes, the shallower and less valuable it gets. Nobody gets hurt (supposedly) but nobody learns much of anything either.


    I completely agree, except that I don't. In fact, I totally disagree, except that Brad is totally right. Anyway, what one does is more important than some artificial name or category. Beyond names and mental categories.

    Our Teacher, GUDO WAFU NISHIJIMA, was a Traditionalist (as seen in the picture over there with the funny hat and fly swatter), except when he wasn't at all. Sometimes he taught us to follow "Old Timeless Traditions", but often he told us to make "New Timeless Traditions" fitting for our culture and times. Sometimes he told us that his way was to be "his way or the highway", except when he let us go our own way. Sometimes he stuck closely to every word and rule of Dogen, except when he didn't.



    So, are we artisans? clergy? artists? wandering musicians? ministers? comedians? priests? rabbis? bakers or candle stick makers?



    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2015, 03:48 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • andyZ
    Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 303

    #2
    Thank you Jundo for this talk and I guess thank you Brad for coming up with these articles that stir things up. There's a danger with any label. For Brad, if I understood him correctly, "clergy" is belonging to a group and following its "rigid" rules and for Jundo "clergy" is helping people with their spiritual matters, among other things. The same word can be both very limiting and very liberating at the same time.
    Gassho,
    Andy

    Comment

    • Shokai
      Treeleaf Priest
      • Mar 2009
      • 6391

      #3
      Thank you Jundo and good for you Andy. I think you hit it right on. We obviously have a ministering rabbi in our midst who cares for us and wants us to do well. Hence, his continuous admonition of "Just sit!"

      gassho to you both and Brad as well
      合掌,生開
      gassho, Shokai

      仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

      "Open to life in a benevolent way"

      https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

      Comment

      • RichardH
        Member
        • Nov 2011
        • 2800

        #4
        Thank you, Jundo.


        Tradition/Free-play ... no problem.

        Gassho, kojip.

        Comment

        • Mp

          #5
          Thank you Jundo ... I really enjoyed this talk.

          Gassho
          Michael

          Comment

          • Shohei
            Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 2854

            #6
            Thank you Jundo and thank you to Brad too.

            Gassho
            Shohei

            Comment

            • Seimyo
              Member
              • Jan 2012
              • 861

              #7
              Thank you Jundo. Thank you Brad for keeping the Earth moving under our feet.

              Gassho.
              Chris

              明 Seimyō (Christhatischris)

              Comment

              • Jiken
                Member
                • Jan 2011
                • 753

                #8
                Thanks Jundo. To the point and wide open

                Gassho,

                Daido

                Comment

                • Eika
                  Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 806

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jundo
                  Sometimes he told us that his way was to be "his way or the highway", except when he let us go our own way. Sometimes he stuck closely to every word and rule of Dogen, except when he didn't.
                  This is great.
                  I think when we are immersed, soaked in doing, our ideas and definitions of who we are evaporate. When we are teaching, we are teachers; when dancing, dancers; when ministering or comforting, we're ministers. Our labels are a lot more about us giving ourselves a box for our idea of self. Useful in the everyday sense, but ultimately off the mark. I think . . .


                  Gassho,
                  Eika


                  Sent from tapatalk
                  [size=150:m8cet5u6]??[/size:m8cet5u6] We are involved in a life that passes understanding and our highest business is our daily life---John Cage

                  Comment

                  • Risho
                    Member
                    • May 2010
                    • 3179

                    #10
                    Gassho,

                    Risho
                    Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                    Comment

                    • Geika
                      Treeleaf Unsui
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 4980

                      #11
                      I like the way Brad describes how he learnt from Nishijima, by watching and not necessarily by being told.
                      求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
                      I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

                      Comment

                      • Jundo
                        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 39474

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Amelia
                        I like the way Brad describes how he learnt from Nishijima, by watching and not necessarily by being told.
                        That is a way of teaching called Mi-narai ... learning by seeing ... very common throughout Japan (and many other traditional societies with master-apprentice systems).

                        One of the best "mi-narai" stories I know tells of a young apprentice in a traditional Sushi restaurant who, for the first years, was allowed to do little more than wash and prepare the rice ... never picking up a knife or touching the fish, only observing the master's work from nearby. One day, after a few years, the master took sick and the apprentice was asked to fill in. Exclaimed the apprentice, "But I don't know how to do anything but wash rice!"

                        The master responded, "What? What have you been looking at all these years?"

                        Gassho, J
                        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                        Comment

                        • Geika
                          Treeleaf Unsui
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 4980

                          #13


                          Originally posted by Jundo
                          That is a way of teaching called Mi-narai ... learning by seeing ... very common throughout Japan (and many other traditional societies with master-apprentice systems).

                          One of the best "mi-narai" stories I know tells of a young apprentice in a traditional Sushi restaurant who, for the first years, was allowed to do little more than wash and prepare the rice ... never picking up a knife or touching the fish, only observing the master's work from nearby. One day, after a few years, the master took sick and the apprentice was asked to fill in. Exclaimed the apprentice, "But I don't know how to do anything but wash rice!"

                          The master responded, "What? What have you been looking at all these years?"

                          Gassho, J
                          求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
                          I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

                          Comment

                          • Shugen
                            Treeleaf Unsui
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 4535

                            #14
                            Thank you for the talk.


                            Shugen
                            Meido Shugen
                            明道 修眼

                            Comment

                            • Kyonin
                              Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 6742

                              #15
                              Thank you, Jundo.

                              Gassho,

                              Kyonin
                              Hondō Kyōnin
                              奔道 協忍

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