SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: MORE Sex Scandal Finger Wagging

[Kyotai]

Very well said Charst.

Gassho

Shawn

[Kyonin]

To transform all delusions, though delusions inexhaustible.

To perceive reality, though reality is boundless.

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Jakudo]

"Right Speech and Right Action are BASICS of Buddhism.
And when someone not just forgets this in the heat of the moment, but shows a long-term lack of understanding of these teachings, I could never take them seriously as teachers."

I whole heartily agree Timo, I am so tired of these silly games, and I am trying hard to not get sucked into the back and forth dialogue.

[Byokan]

Thank you Jundo

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Getchi]

I wag my finger at Buddha, Hui-Neng, Dogen and all the Ancestors for faults that we don't know about because they were likely scrubbed up in history after they were dead.


Finally, I wag my finger at myself ... for wagging my finger at everyone else, and probably pissing off more than a few of the wagees. And also, for any faults and failings of my own. May my students someday write about me honestly, for better or worse, both while I am alive and after I am dead.

Thankyou Jundo, this is so very honest.

SatToday

[Washin]

Wonderful talk. Thank you Jundo.
Thank you Lisa for digging this out.

Gassho
Sergey
sat-today

[Mitty-san]

Thanks, Jundo for being so open about this.

Actually, I didn't want to write anything about this whole thing, but now I am doing it nonetheless...
IMHO the whole mud throwing at the moment causes as much harm to the whole Zen community as the scandal itself.

Of course, a Zen teacher is only a human being with faults.
Of course, we shouldn't idealize Zen teachers, putting them on a pedestial.
Of course, we shouldn't call all Zen teachers frauds.
I agree with the things Jundo said above...

BUT:
I expect from a Zen teacher that he/she has internalized Zen/Buddhist teachings and really lives them. I expect that he/she really lives Buddhist practice - yes, with occasional "slips".
The Schiresons could have said something like:
"Sorry, we said some really harsh things in the heat of the moment. We are deeply sorry." and Brad could accept it "Never mind, after all we are all humans."
This would have been mature, something natural, understandable - an example of reconciliation.

But instead I see more mud throwing, false accusations - from people who should be well aware of the Eightfold Path.
No, I don't expect Zen teachers to be perfect, faultless.
However, I do expect that they really live "Right Action", "Right Speech", etc. And yes, I would still consider it normal if they slipped back into old habits.
I do expect that a Zen teacher - to express it a bit naively - is above average when it comes to living the Eightfold Path and the Precepts.

When I see the behavior of the people currently throwing mud into Brad's direction, they look like children in a sandbox. Not like someone practising Buddhism, and certainly not like someone who is a Zen teacher (AFAIK with Dharma Transmission!).

Right Speech and Right Action are BASICS of Buddhism.
And when someone not just forgets this in the heat of the moment, but shows a long-term lack of understanding of these teachings, I could never take them seriously as teachers.

Again, no, Zen teachers are not perfect, and I don't expect them (or even want them) to be - but I expect a certain minimum standard (don't know a better expression right now) and not a behavior that would be fitting for someone who has never heard anything about Buddhism in their whole life.

I have seen already how newbies in the Zen world were appalled by the current display of Egos and the seemingly total lack of compassion and even will to understand each other.
The whole thing is harmful for the "Zen world". Probably more than many are aware of right now.
And it threatens to push the "actual scandal" into the background.

There would be a lot more to say, but I think I have already written too much.


Gassho,

Timo

Timo, I strongly agree with your words and can relate. I'd say more but you said it well enough.

Gassho,
Paul

Sat Today.