SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

[Dosho]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Connected to that, I'm wondering about whether turning some of our daily activities into rituals can help our practice. Are there any websites or books on the subject that consider this idea of introducing rituals in our daily life? Is anyone experimenting with it? What are your results? So far I've tried gathas, and in the beginning they helped me to stay focused, but after repeating them for a couple of months, it just got merely mechanic and, for example, I forgot my initial impulse to be mindful while walking less than a minute after reciting the gatha.

I'd definitely try the book Jundo suggested, but I rather think the point is to integrate ritual based on things we already do, beliefs we already hold, and to either rededicate oursleves to them or let them go accordingly. If you add a bit of mindfulness in random moments over the course of your day I think that will do a greater service to yourself, others, or even to the world than trying to integrate someone else's life rituals into your own.

Be creative!

Gassho,
Dosho

[Rimon]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Hi Rimon,

The book by Daido Loori mentioned in our "At Home Liturgry" recommendations is very good.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3308

Gassho, J

Looks great Jundo. Thank you so much

Rimon

[Rimon]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

I'd definitely try the book Jundo suggested, but I rather think the point is to integrate ritual based on things we already do, beliefs we already hold, and to either rededicate oursleves to them or let them go accordingly. If you add a bit of mindfulness in random moments over the course of your day I think that will do a greater service to yourself, others, or even to the world than trying to integrate someone else's life rituals into your own.

Be creative!

Gassho,
Dosho

Creative rituals! I like the sound of that!

Thank you Dosho

Rimon

[Jundo]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Knocking Down Monastery Walls III - by Jundo



I would like to present the next installment of ... "POINTS FOR POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENT" in the traditional monastic model.

Before I do, however, I wish to emphasize again that one man's "magico-supersticio hocus pocus, baseless invented myths, and incantation and mumbo-jumbo filled rituals" is another man's "wondrous miracles, sacred wisdom stories and beautiful timeless traditions". To each his/her own, and no one has a monopoly on how to interpret these aspects of Buddhist practice. May all find their own road, and find the meaning thereof in their own heart and life.

so, on to ...

POINTS OF POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENT IN THE MONASTIC INSTITUTION - No. II -: Have traditional monasteries become egregiously loaded down with superstition, hocus-pocus and folk beliefs, worship of bizarre or hyper-exaggerated images of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas added on as Buddhism evolved through the centuries, coupled with quasi-magical rituals and arcane Sino-Japanese cultural customs which are not necessary and which need a real cleaning out?

NO! Because to some folks, these things mean something, are a place to find and manifest the Teachings. If some fellow finds all Time and Space in a mote of dust ... while enough fellow just sees a "mote of dust" which might best be swept into the dust bin ... more power to the first fellow! Good for him or her!

But ... YES!

Because for some of us in the Buddhist and Zen worlds, monasteries and traditional practices are like an old, dusty attic filled with some real treasures (eye of the beholder for some, others truly manifesting the Buddha Eye for all sentient beings), but also stuffed to the rafters with piles of rotting junk, old newspapers, musty moth-eaten clothes and seemingly ridiculous souvenirs picked up as Buddhism traveled through the many exotic lands it did. For some of us, the monastic attic could use a pretty thorough Spring cleaning.

Again, much of this is in the "eye of the beholder", and collectors will vary in their tastes and needs. To treasure hunters and pickers, one person's "ridiculous souvenir" may be a profound reminder of a visit to the Pure Land or Atlantic City!. To each his or her own, and his or her heart, and we celebrate and support each and all in keeping their own attic! Someone's silly or dusty magic-spell and mumbo-jumbo filled ceremony (like the ceremony asking for the kind benefaction of the Earth Protector Deity as I recently participated in during a brief stay at a Soto monastery in Japan) is a lovely dance filled with endless significance. (By the way, when at the monastery, I threw my "self" through and through into the ceremony with all my body and heart ... for when in Rome.)

But for some of us, "Grandpa Buddha" is now dead, and we need to make room for the real, living Buddha which is still here in each of us. We might do without the "Earth Protector Deity", and perhaps 1000 other boxes of "gathered by Grandpa over the years" stuff.

The question then becomes, if so ... if some of us do clean out "Grandpa Buddha's attic" ... doing away with perhaps a large portion of the elements of Buddhism, Zen, Soto or Rinzai or something else (while seeking our own vision of Buddhism, Zen, Soto or Rinzai or something else ... maybe even a "Truer to us and our times Buddhism, Zen, Soto or Rinzai or something else.") ...

... what might remain that need look like an Old Chinese Monastery at all? If we burn the Chinese robes, the Chinese furniture, the funky legends and funny beliefs ... replacing them with equally wonderful and durable clothing and tables from Sears, Ways and Teachings more suitable to the place and time ... would it resemble "an Old Chinese Monastery" ... or even "a Monastery" at all?

I feel not.

Oh, I am NOT AT ALL FOR TOSSING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER! I often write this on that subject ...

In making such changes in the West, perhaps we need to be very honest and say that we are really making a "new Zen", very different from the ways it was practiced traditionally in China, Japan, Vietnam and Korea, in Buddha's time, Dogen's time, Hakuin's time or later. What many westerners think of as "Zen" or "returning to the heart of Zen" is a modern western fantasy, and unlike anything before.

In doing away with things that have been part of the tradition for hundreds of years, thousands of years, we must realize that ... in many ways ... we are making a completely NEW tradition that is nothing like "Zen" as traditionally practiced.

But ... remember that different folks have different needs. Also, do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Many completely "Japanese" or "Chinese" etc. practices which seem silly at first are worth keeping. ...

... other things, like some of the arcane incense, bell & drum filled rituals to the "Earth Protecting Deity", take them or leave them.
viewtopic.php?p=55762#p55762

To each his own, and I also know the great value and Teachings found in some practices such as extended times of silence and retreat, bowing, chanting, even Oryoki eating ... and, of course, lots and lots of Zazen! Some can be kept, some recycled, some put out with the trash. But would the vessel for such practices resemble anything like the Sino-Japanese image of what that institution is/was? I think it might be very different (precisely the same, but very very different). Some may not even be located as and when or where "traditionalists" might locate theirs.

To each his own, but some of us make very new vessels to hold timeless flowers ... boundless vessels that barely resemble the containers of old.

Gassho, Jundo

[Seishin the Elder]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Even after the attic is cleaned out, all the corners dusted and sprayed for hidden bugs, new insulation put in with clean dry-wall; Even after it is freshly painted and the central heat and air conditioning ducts are extended to the attic and it is made livable; Even after all the new Sears or IKEA furniture is moved in and a new environment is created; isn't there the same opportunity for this new minimalist, puritan environment to become the "sine qua non" for the "cleansing generation" and completely abhorent to the next generation, who wish to install all of their grandmother's furniture back in the attic?

Let me explain by telling you what happened to the monasteries of the Western Church. After Vatican II in the 1960's, all the doors were thrown open, the windows washed, the old furniture literally thrown out on the garbage heap and a new era of openess with a simplification of order and ritual followed. Also following out the door were a vast number of the monks and nuns who had previously populated those monasteries. The monasteries were forced to close, the small communities forced to unite with other small communities in order to survive. Fewer and fewer new vocations arrived and the monasteries began aging until the average age has moved from 40 to 60, or more in some places.

Now that generation of reformers is passing and the following generations have done something absolutely remarkable. :shock: They are opening new monasteries that are growing rapidly, so rapidly that many are unable to accomodate the many applicants. What is attracting this newer generation? The attraction is form and order.
In almost every one of these new thriving monasteries the "original" Rule has been re-established, the old order of life, as it was for the years and centuries before Vatican II and the "cleansing" of the reformers began, is being observed in all its strictness. Believe me this is a great surprise to those of us who have lived through the past half century in religious life. :?

What this says to me is that imposed "free-thinking" and reform does not last much past the generation that invokes it. What this says to me is that perhaps form and order are not bad things in themselves; but perhaps need to be tempered with compassion (something admitedly, form and order can sometimes overlook).

Perhaps I'm just an old poop; one who remembers both the "old days" and the revision, and who upon weighing the two has a greater feeling for the prior. Personally I like form and order, rite and ritual, bells and incense, altars and robes. As for me, I've been through the reform and didn't quite care for it, but you young turks go ahead and do what you believe you need to do. I'll just sit here and wait for you, or the generation that follows to come around the bend as they inevitably will. It's just the tick-tock that we all hear from the cuckoo clock on the wall. The only thing I request is that a small corner may be left preserved :roll: , perhaps as a museum piece where I, and folks like me, can go to also feel comfortable in our spirituality.

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill

[Jundo]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Now that generation of reformers is passing and the following generations have done something absolutely remarkable. :shock: They are opening new monasteries that are growing rapidly, so rapidly that many are unable to accomodate the many applicants. What is attracting this newer generation? The attraction is form and order.
In almost every one of these new thriving monasteries the "original" Rule has been re-established, the old order of life, as it was for the years and centuries before Vatican II and the "cleansing" of the reformers began, is being observed in all its strictness. Believe me this is a great surprise to those of us who have lived through the past half century in religious life. :?

What this says to me is that imposed "free-thinking" and reform does not last much past the generation that invokes it. What this says to me is that perhaps form and order are not bad things in themselves; but perhaps need to be tempered with compassion (something admitedly, form and order can sometimes overlook). ... Personally I like form and order, rite and ritual, bells and incense, altars and robes.

Hi Fr. K.,

I am, perhaps, a strange kind of "reformer", because I also believe in fully preserving the old for those who need that, are called there. For them, the "form and order, rite and ritual, bells and incense, altars and robes" may be fruitful and good, and I honor and encourage them on that path.

I just feel that there should be other ways and roads too for those who are called different ways.

No need to close all the monasteries, or change one thing within those places that do not wish to change. On the other hand, we must also recognize alternative paths which do not lead to a monastery door, rite and ritual, bells and incense, altars and robes.

Gassho, J

[Shogen]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

No need to close all the monasteries, or change one thing within those places that do not wish to change. On the other hand, we must also recognize alternative paths which do not lead to a monastery door, rite and ritual, bells and incense, altars and robes.

Gassho, J

A tip of the hat and a deep bow for this teaching. An old worn phrase, " it's much harder to teach by example than by words," is sure fitting for the one who chooses to walk within society, unadorned by robes and titles, and teach by actions. Tearing down walls without anything other than personal choice of your actions, based in the precepts, is beautiful practice.

Gassho, Shogen

[Saijun]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Hello friends,

I just found this:

Dogen's religion abolished the separation between monastics and laypersons. "Those who regard mundane life as an obstacle to the Buddha-Dharma know only that there is no Buddha-Dharma in the mundane life; they do not yet know that there is no mundane life in the Buddha-Dharma."



Nevertheless, Dogen also stated:

"Of all the Buddhas of the three periods and ten directions, not a single Buddha attained Buddhahood through the secular life. Because of those Buddhas of the past, monasticism and ordination have their merits. Sentient beings' attainment of the Way depends upon entering into the monastic's life and receiving the precepts. Indeed the monastic's life and the vow to preserve the precepts, being the unchanging law of Buddhas, are possessed of boundless merits.

Source

So, perhaps he's pointing to monasticism as more an entering of a state of mind or way of being than a physical place. At least, that's what I got out of this section. Not too different a stance from here, one would think. (However, I do understand that the physical monastery is a place specifically designed to be teach and be supportive of the monastic mind set, and that is a valuable place indeed.)

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

[Jundo]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Hi Saijun,

Dogen even goes on to say quite plainly: "[Enlightenment] depends solely upon whether you have a sincere desire to seek it, not upon whether you live in a monastery or the secular world."

It may be more a matter of the time and circumstances in which Dogen wrote each of those passages, and the audience he was speaking to.

The first was written early in Dogen's career, when he came back from China all eager to spread the Dharma to the whole world, ordained and lay alike. He was very much more open to sincere Zen practice any where, any time, by anyone. The passage was likely written to a lay follower, and was thus very positive on lay practice.

The second was written a bit later, when Dogen had been kicked out of town with his small band of monks, his dreams a bit tarnished, all to have to take retreat in the lonely cold and snow of remote Echizen Province. Dogen was likely speaking these words to his monks. He turned into the "football coach" or army general, trying to keep the sometimes flagging morale up among his "men" who were probably sometimes wondering why they had left the comforts of home life and "civilization" to live and sit in the freezing cold. It was a "pep talk" to monks about the specialness of monk-iness.

Dogen often spoke out of both sides of his no sided mouth, depending on the setting and his mood.

Gassho, Jundo

[Risho]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

What a fantastic talk and posts! This is why this Sangha feels like home for me. I do often fantasize about going to a monastery when things seem to get crazy. Well I fantasize less now, and I try to feel the craziness, or the anger, or whatever it is I want to run away from. For me, my life is the perfect practice ground. Thankfully we do have technology that allows this Sangha to exist in the way that it does. I'm just a lay practitioner to the core. I'm also an iconoclast, so when I hear things like "be a lamp unto yourself" or what Jundo sensei quoted in the teisho about being independent, that's exactly what I'm talking about!

I feel very passionate from that perspective of practice. Again these are my personal opinions based on a mere year or so of practice, so I'm obviously no authority. But I strongly, strongly, strongly believe that although a teacher (or teachers in our case, giving a shout out to Taigu and Jundo. lol) is essential to our practice, and a sangha is essential to our practice, if we use those in the wrong way, as crutches rather than allowing us to bloom in our practice, it can be an issue.

I remember when I first started here, I really wanted to Taigu and Jundo to like what I said. I was looking for approval. I wanted another authority figure to say, "yes that's good" or whatever. But the heart of practice should be completely other than that. The true way to honor Jundo and Taigu and our lineage is to practice it, not give lip service to it. That means doing what needs to be done even in difficulty or sitting with what is when what is seems to be chaos, or having to struggle to pay bills, or even overspending on things because you use purchasing to fill a void.

Gassho,

Risho

[Hoyu]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Thank you Jundo Sensei, this has been a wonderful series! I am forever grateful to Treeleaf. It has enabled the Dharma to enter my life in a way that otherwise would have been inaccessible, had it remained behind walls.

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

I just posted the following in a forum's discussion of these same issues ...

Below, a "picture paints 1000 words" example of the magical, sooth-saying, esoteric elements found ... much more than perhaps most Western practitioners realize ... within the routines of traditional monastic life. While most folks might think that a monk's day is largely devoted to Zazen, work in the gardens, study and more Zazen, in fact hours upon hours of daily monk-time ...perhaps more than any other single activity ... are devoted to the learning and performance of esoteric elements such as seen here, in this short video.

Now, to emphasize, I am not critical of esoteric elements for those who wish to practice in such way. More power to them (pun intended). When my own school of Soto Zen Buddhism seems too much to resemble the practices of Shingon or Tibetan Buddhism, I am a bit critical on my own behalf and for my own students ... but I still honor and respect the right of anyone to practice their own "Soto Zen Buddhism" as they wish. One man's hocus-pocus is another man's sacred dance. On the other hand, some of us might wish to criticize such elements of Zen practice as magic making, voodoo and spell casting from our perspective. That leads to this question: If such wizardly elements have been a central part of traditional Asian monastic practice ... and we are now trying to bring these traditional practices West ... should we leave the abracadabra behind? If so, and if it is such a central part of Zen monastic practice, what would remain? What should be cast away, and what should remain?

There are places which have greatly reduced the hocus and the pocus (I believe that Antaiji is such a place that has reduced such elements, although not completely). However, one quick look through the 'table of contents' of the Gyoji Kihan (the manual of Standard Observances of the Soto Zen School) will show that, page after page, such esoteric and exoteric ceremonies and worship are perhaps timewise -- the central activity -- of the daily monastic routine rivaling or perhaps exceeding Zazen and Samu (i.e., more time and effort is spent on the performance of such rituals that any other single activity).

http://hcbss.stanford.edu/research/proj ... ntents.pdf

By the way, I can also take and embrace all the elements of Mikkyo (Esoteric) ritual for their beauty, tradition, or on a symbolic or psychological level, or as a lovely dance. However, I think that some awareness of the origins of these practices (e.g., the Vajra, the hidden Mudra, the Dharani incantation seen in the below video), and how they came into Zen practice, would show that the description "abracadabra" fits more than "lovely symbolic dance". Some folks might be surprised that these rituals are so central to Zen practice in China and Japan ... arguably more central, more widely practiced by numbers of priests and time, than Zazen.

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[disastermouse]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

Much gratitude for your efforts in this area, Jundo and Taigu.

Gassho,

Chet

[Jundo]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

.
Time for another installment of ...


... "POINTS FOR POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENT"...


... in the traditional monastic model.


POINTS OF POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENT IN THE MONASTIC INSTITUTION - No. III -: Does the system of Buddhist monasteries embody both the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE aspects of an economic "Guild"? Instead of serving primarily as places of good spiritual practice, or for the training of truly enlightened and gifted priests and teacher "apprentices", can the dominant purpose of the monastery as an institution come to be maintenance of the economic position or monopoly, territory, brand name and image exclusivity of the sponsoring religious sect?

I believe so and that, although both "solid spiritual training and practice" and "maintenance of market share/exclusivity" can go hand in hand ... often the latter has come to dominate in Buddhist history then and now. We should be on our guard to avoid so.

In medieval times in both Europe and Asia, craftmans' "guilds" served a variety of economic and social purposes. For example, this system of "masters" and "apprentices" served to pass down necessary skills, knowledge and wisdom from generation to generation. They also served to ensure in theory the achievement and maintenance of some level of "quality standards", working to assure that the apprentices were well trained, and were of sufficient knowledge, skill and character to serve in their trade. It is not by chance that medieval monasteries in Asia were often modeled on the "guild" structure prevalent in the traditional and medieval economies of the time, based on apprenticeship of master and disciple.

(for some fascinating reading):
http://eh.net/content/sacred-economies- ... al-china-0

However, in addition (or in substitution) of its positive points, a guild can also encompass many 'negatives'. For example, as opposed to assuring the provision of effective and quality "goods and services" to the general population who might benefit from those services, the guild becomes primarily focused on the position and protection of the "service providers" (whether blacksmiths, stone masons, or priests offering "spiritual services" in this case) who are guild members ... making sure that their authority, income and/or social status is preserved as its central and primary goal. Further, although sometimes serving as a vehicle to pass down, generation to generation, certain time tested and proven skills and practices, the guild can also serve as a stubborn "Luddite" protector of its own prerogatives and authority by resisting ... without regard to their efficacy and the greater benefit to service receivers ... any "new fangled" or simply different way of doing things which, by being merely "new" or "other", is thus a threat to the authority and monopoly of the guild (as the Luddites fought modern textiles ... better that the few be protected instead of the greater population being cheaply clothed and kept warm). Guilds can also become "stuck in their ways" simply because they are based on a relatively frozen vision of "how things are done, have ever been done, and must be done".

Guilds can serve to "keep out potential competitors" no matter the worth of the goods and services they may offer (much as, perhaps, Dogen was run out of Kyoto to the snowy mountains of Echizen because his "product" posed a threat to the established sects in the capital).

Buddhist Sects, like any economic corporation, become distinguished in the marketplace of spirituality by their trademarks and "brand images" (special cuts of Kesa robe and other priestly gear, unique beliefs and practices exclusive to the Sect, legendary "founders" whose mythical image must be preserved). The monastery is a vehicle ... not much different from the training programs for new company employees conducted by Mitsubishi or Sony in Japan ... to pass on this "brand identity" to the next generation of staff who will serve to defend and preserve it against competing brand images (thus, for example, "WE SIT ZAZEN THIS WAY, CHANT THIS WAY, ETC." is defended ... not simply because it is necessarily the only or even best way to sit Zazen or chant ... but because it is "OUR WAY").

The guild serves to preserve the rights and privileges of guilds members, e.g., "only priests can perform this ceremony, and lay people cannot" (presumably because the priests possess some sacred power or quality that the lay person lacks).

Since the marketplace for temples is tight (especially in modern times), with parishioners being lost to age, death and disinterest, and temples are often desperately fighting to preserve the requisite quantity of "Danka" (temple parishioner families) in order to fund the temple (because someone has to pay the rent, and we can't just go out begging for it!), the "guiid" serves to keep additional potential competitors out of the market by not recognizing any but "official" temples. (At various times in Japan, the government and temples mutually benefited by the government's requiring each family to join a temple, a system which both served as a method of forced funding for temples and of close record keeping and social control for the government). The connections between "high" Zen/Chan and other Buddhist prelates and high government officials throughout Asia, right until today in many countries, are well known. At times, the fight for "territory" "property" and "government influence" became so heated that we have seen examples such as the "sect riots" of recent years in South Korea over control of various key Son/Zen temples:

http://amarillo.com/stories/1998/12/31/bel_monks.shtml

One proper role of a "guild" is to work to insure that "quality" is maintained in goods and services, and that the public is not presented with shoddy or defective work. At their best, the "medical society" or "bar associations" are fine modern "guilds" which serve the public in this way through their requirements for proper education and examination. In the Western Zen Buddhist world, organizations such as the Soto Zen Buddhist Association and American Zen Teachers Association are working very hard to play a like, positive role in order to prevent "quacks" and charlatans from deceiving the public, and to ensure that Zen clergy receive proper and necessary training in basic skills and traditions. It is a proper and necessary role, and they are to be saluted for their work and efforts.

However, in Japan right now, it is questionable whether some sect organizations and their monasteries are serving primarily to "assure quality" or simply to assure the economic position of their members. For example, as is well known, becoming a Soto Zen priest (other sects in Japan have similar systems) requires ... not that the person be spiritually inclined or necessarily a quality clergyman or teacher ... but primarily that one's father be a priest and that one have a "family owned and operated" temple that the son (sometimes daughter) is bound to take over. Anyone who can spend the required number of months at the monastery/company training school ... learning the "brand image" of the sect such as "our chants, our ceremonies, our dogma" ... almost automatically (on payment, of course, of the requisite fees to the sect, with proper forms filled out and stamps affixed) ...

http://antaiji.dogen-zen.de/eng/201007.shtml

... receives full ordination and "Transmission" as an "enlightened master". One is left to wonder whether the system is truly turning out so many "enlightened masters", or merely "newly minted managers" to take over local chain franchise stores of the Sect, familiar with "our spiritual products" ... primarily the funeral and memorial services (and little else, maybe the once a month or less Zazenkai) that the temples offer. Like a marine boot camp or college fraternity initiation, the "hazing" accompanying the months of new employee trainee at Camp Pendleton, Sony or Eiheiji serves effectively to build tremendous loyalty and dedication in the "young recruits" to their organization. Fortunately, in the process, Zazen and other spiritual study is required ... and some actual benefit may perhaps "rub off" on the new managers through the process (I am sure some does).

Now, the Soto Shu and other sects are working to bring their "official certification" standards to the West. One is again left to wonder whether the purpose is mainly to certify the "best Zen teachers", or to preserve territory and influence from encroachment. Many many young Western priests are running for such certification, although one is left to wonder sometimes at the reasons and motives. For example, I was recently told that one of the most widely respected Ango for Western Soto Zen priests is running short of applicants because most young western priests wishing to sit Ango are running to the "official Soto-shu" Ango needed for their certification ...

(a positive review of the positive aspects ... and there are many ... of the "corporate branding process" of the Official Sotoshu Ango is contained on pg 7 of the "company newsletter" here, describing what, perhaps, may be seen as a merger of the AZI lineage and the head office in Japan to allow corporate expansion into European territory. Notice the emphasis on inculcating the new recruits/mergees with "our chants, our ceremonies, our dogma"):
http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/dharma/pdf/21e.pdf

... even though the "official Ango" does not necessarily have the strongest reputation for the nature and content of the training provided. However, getting "official recognition" (perhaps as some kind of "authorized distributor" of the brand) is too much a desired prize in the eyes of these young priests. Fortunately again, along the way, I am sure some actual spiritual benefit "rubs off" on the new managers through the process (I am sure some does).

Now, please do not misunderstand. I am -NOT- saying that all religion, including Zen religion and the Soto-sect is driven exclusively for economic market share. No, even though there are important aspects of that, of churches thinking about money and other assets. I want to be clear on this point.

Rather, what I am pointing to are the ways in which a religious institution, such as any church or large religious sect, can be driven to obtain or hold "religious market share" for itself as an institution, seeking that the religion's influence expands or is maintained as a religious sect. This is what religious institutions tend to do, to maintain there position much as a 'guild' or corporation will try to maintain market share and control. Money and property, of course, is sometimes very very much part of it ... but "religious influence and dominance" for the institution and its clergy is usually the main goal in these cases.

Hopefully, in establishing a monastery or other alternative training methods in the West, we can stay focused on our main task: Providing places and opportunities for good and profound Zen practice, for the training of deeply enlightened and enlightening, ethical and gifted Zen priests.

Gassho, Jundo
.

[Kaishin]

Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

All very enlightening. Perhaps en-frightening!