Special reading - eight types of enlightenment

[Hōkan]

Thank you

Today I sat for the first time in the Free Sitting Room.

[Meian]

Thank you

Today I sat for the first time in the Free Sitting Room.

Hello Hokan,

Great to know you were able to use the Free Sitting Room!

The Free Sitting Room -- or FSR, as we often call it -- is available to you any time, day or night.

The SSR, or Scheduled Sitting Room, is used for meetings, scheduled sittings, and other events that are listed in Treeleaf's calendar (found at the top left of the forum menu and here: https://www.treeleaf.org/now/#calendar)

In case it's useful.

Gassho, meian st lh

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[Tai Shi]

I used the Free sitting room this afternoon because I had not sat in a few days and I needed to sit because I was reminded of grateful and good children.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kaishin]

I cannot recommend his book on Genjo Koan at all. Few books that I say that about. It is truly a quite tangled and very personal take by the author, coming from a Pure Land perspective that, I think, really obscures what Dogen was about there.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Good to know! Although admittedly "Dogen from a Pure Land perspective" has piqued my curiosity...

-satToday

[Gareth]

Thanks for posting this. It was interesting, despite his quite different perspective - he is very funny in places.

Gassho,
Gareth

Sat today

[Timchenko_Oleg]

There is no "enlightenment." Nobody to be enlightened either.

But if there was no realization and being enlightened, then what would be the point of Buddhist Practice and our being here? Turn of the lights, let's all go home. (A Koan)

Master Dogen's vision is "Practice-Enlightenment." A sample from my new book, whose manuscript I am just finishing ...

----------

It is said in the Soto tradition that Dogen [while still a young Tendai monk] became possessed of a great question regarding a core doctrine of the Tendai school: if, as it is taught there, all human beings are endowed with Buddha Nature and already possessed of enlightenment by birth, what need is there for any of us to nonetheless seek enlightenment by engaging in spiritual practice? This question arises in the Tendai concept of “Original Enlightenment,” which asserts that all sentient beings are already enlightened by original nature and, thus, any idea of working toward and achieving enlightenment by pursuing practices is flawed. It is this question which, it is said, caused Dogen to leave Mt. Hiei and seek other Teachers. From his later writings, we know that Dogen eventually came to the conclusion that, although we are originally “without flaw,” just as he had learned, we must nonetheless engage in ongoing Practice and polishing to constantly let that inherent flawlessness shine through. This became the cornerstone of Dogen’s emphasis on “Practice-Enlightenment” and “Continuous Practice.” ...



Zazen is not only about when we are seated on the sitting cushion. Dogen spoke of “Practice-Enlightenment” or “Continuous Practice,” which manifests enlightenment again and again. The meaning is very simple: the jewel of our Buddha Nature is always shining and flawless, but we must constantly polish it through our present actions free of excess desire, anger, divided thinking, and like mental states that cloud the mind and manifest unwholesomeness, in order to manifest that shine. The world is always just the world, but if we choose to fill it and our life with dissatisfaction, anger, jealousy, resentments, and like pollutants, then this world and life take on those tints. On the other hand, if we bring gentleness and peace into our hearts, then our life is colored with those thoughts and the world becomes a bit nicer. It is up to us in each thought, word, and action we take in life in each moment. We bring Buddha to life, here and now, in the way we live here and now.


Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Tobiishi]

There's 30 minutes of my life I won't get back.

I believe Mr. Brazier's use of the phrase "...typically skillful Buddhist manoeuvre..." sums up his philosophy (at the time of this writing, anyway,) and prompted me to look him up on Amazon so I could make a mental note of books not to buy. I'll have to sit an extra few minutes tonight to get the taste out of my brain.

Kodo Tobiishi sat today, lent a hand
Gassho

[Tai Do]

Just found this thread and became very interested in what are these eight types of enlightenment. I couldn’t found the text, though; what I found on Google Books doesn’t allow to read past the fiesta pages of the chapter on them. Does anybody have a list of them or know were I can read more about?
Gassho,
Mateus
Satlah

[Jundo]

Just found this thread and became very interested in what are these eight types of enlightenment. I couldn’t found the text, though; what I found on Google Books doesn’t allow to read past the fiesta pages of the chapter on them. Does anybody have a list of them or know were I can read more about?
Gassho,
Mateus
Satlah

I repaired the link in the OP, Mateus.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Tai Do]

Thanks, Jundo!
Gassho,
Mateus
Satlah

[Houzan]

Thank you - interesting read!
I have read parts of it so far and feel he is missing a crucial point (?): even though you have different descriptions of enlightenment, it doesn't mean that there are different types of enlightenment.
Ask a bunch of people to describe 'spring' and you'll get many different answers, as you will when trying to describe the ultimate/ direct experience with concepts.

Michael
stlh

[Tai Do]

I agree with Michael that different accounts of Enlightenment are not the same as different types of Enlightenment; they are different ways of describing that which cannot be described.

I also found the text kind of leaning towards Pure Land views (not that they are bad, being a Nembutsu practitioner myself). But he seems to leave aside the fact that many more philosophical accounts of Pure Land seems to view Amida as our Buddha-nature and the Pure Land as the Pure Mind.

Also, the author seems to view non-duality as the same as monism. But in the Sandokai we chant every Monthly Zazenkai we are presented with non-duality as “not one (monism), not two (dualism). Furthermore, non-duality is not opposite of affirmation of the reality of each phenomena (I remember here of the Dharma Talk Jundo gave about dharma position, hoi).

The author seems to view nirvana as the causal result of dependent origination. But, if I’m not wrong, dependent origination presents the causality of dhukka, not nirvana. The earliest pali texts, if I’m not again wrong, present Nirvana as unconditioned; so, clearly not the result of causality and in plain agreement teachings such Buddha-nature, original Enlightenment and practice-realization.

This has other implications as the author believes non-duality goes against causality. No Buddhist text I know, especially not a Thich Nhat Hahn’s one, defends that interbeing or interflow is the opposite of causality. One can defend a common Source for all phenomena without discarding causality — Western philosophers have done this for millennia and so have Eastern ones. So we can say that Emptiness or Buddha-nature pervades everything without denying causality.

On the other hand, his presentation makes clear the different flavors and presentations of Buddhist Enlightenment.

Gassho,
Mateus
Satlah

[Jundo]

I agree with Michael that different accounts of Enlightenment are not the same as different types of Enlightenment; they are different ways of describing that which cannot be described.

I also found the text kind of leaning towards Pure Land views (not that they are bad, being a Nembutsu practitioner myself). But he seems to leave aside the fact that many more philosophical accounts of Pure Land seems to view Amida as our Buddha-nature and the Pure Land as the Pure Mind.

Also, the author seems to view non-duality as the same as monism. But in the Sandokai we chant every Monthly Zazenkai we are presented with non-duality as “not one (monism), not two (dualism). Furthermore, non-duality is not opposite of affirmation of the reality of each phenomena (I remember here of the Dharma Talk Jundo gave about dharma position, hoi).

The author seems to view nirvana as the causal result of dependent origination. But, if I’m not wrong, dependent origination presents the causality of dhukka, not nirvana. The earliest pali texts, if I’m not again wrong, present Nirvana as unconditioned; so, clearly not the result of causality and in plain agreement teachings such Buddha-nature, original Enlightenment and practice-realization.

This has other implications as the author believes non-duality goes against causality. No Buddhist text I know, especially not a Thich Nhat Hahn’s one, defends that interbeing or interflow is the opposite of causality. One can defend a common Source for all phenomena without discarding causality — Western philosophers have done this for millennia and so have Eastern ones. So we can say that Emptiness or Buddha-nature pervades everything without denying causality.

On the other hand, his presentation makes clear the different flavors and presentations of Buddhist Enlightenment.

Gassho,
Mateus
Satlah

Thank you. I enjoyed reading these insights, Mat.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Seiko]

David Brazier's interest in Zen seems to be linked to his work in UK as a psychotherapist. He founded and leads The Amida Order - http://www.amidashu.org/

I have nothing much to say about enlightenment. I have my internal dialogue a million times a day, trying to make the right choices, it keeps me busy.

Seiko
stlah

[Tai Do]

Thank you for the resource, Seiko.
Gassho,
Tai Do (Mateus)
Satlah