time and attainment do not matter

[Jundo]

I have been at times torn asunder during Shikantaza as a result of thoughts arising. A thought begins to arise, do I allow it to fully form (in the sense that once a single phoneme arises do I allow it to conclude in a unit of meaning, a word and/or then a sentence) and then let it go, or do I cut it off as it arises. Either way it involves some 'effort'.

Some of the thoughts are about this such topic, about seeing any thought including thoughts of attainment as empty.

Wow, too complicated! I even had to look up the definition of "phoneme," thinking that you were telephoning someone during Zazen!

[phoneme, in linguistics, smallest unit of speech distinguishing one word (or word element) from another]

You are trying to stop thoughts. We don't try to stop thoughts. We simply don't latch on and get tangled in them.

Is it an "effort" to not grab something, or does one simply not grab it (which seems like the very opposite of effort!)?

If a butterfly, flutters into the room, and you just let it flutter, then flutter out again, it is no effort. You don't have to worry, "Do I not think about it at 1 flutter, at 2 wings and a flutter?" You don't have to make an "effort" not to reach out and grab it as it flutters by your hand. Just let it flutter in and out. The butterfly does all the work, not you.

There are times I simply use that ethereal sense of movement, our focus of awareness so to speak, to guide intension. Intension to simply not judge and let the thoughts drift away at either level (don't allow words to form and allow a word or a sentence to form but not develop further) but even then that wordless motion of letting go is empty, as it involves judgement.

I actually have no idea what the above sentences mean, but I can say that this is NOT Shikantaza.

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

[Bion]

time and attainment do not matter

I have been at times torn asunder during Shikantaza as a result of thoughts arising. A thought begins to arise, do I allow it to fully form (in the sense that once a single phoneme arises do I allow it to conclude in a unit of meaning, a word and/or then a sentence) and then let it go, or do I cut it off as it arises. Either way it involves some 'effort'.

Some of the thoughts are about this such topic, about seeing any thought including thoughts of attainment as empty.

There are times I simply use that ethereal sense of movement, our focus of awareness so to speak, to guide intension. Intension to simply not judge and let the thoughts drift away at either level (don't allow words to form and allow a word or a sentence to form but not develop further) but even then that wordless motion of letting go is empty, as it involves judgement.

A beast Shikantaza certainly is, simply sitting in peaceful abiding, a frustratingly difficult at times thing to do.

It is what it is, whatever it is... and it will continue to be whatever.

Gassho
Mark
ST

That seems like a lot of work to just sit [emoji1] For me, as soon as I bow before putting my hands in the zazen mudra, I let go of all that “trying” and “intention” and “expectation” of what I should do in case this or that arises or what zazen should be like. I just sit upright, back straight, breathe deeply and naturally, keep eyes open, stay awake and let go of thinking…

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Rousei]

If a butterfly, flutters into the room, and you just let it flutter, then flutter out again, it is no effort. You don't have to worry, "Do I not think about it at 1 flutter, at 2 wings and a flutter?" You don't have to make an "effort" not to reach out and grab it as it flutters by your hand. Just let it flutter in and out. The butterfly does all the work, not you.

I will try my best to do just this, to think of my own thoughts as no different to a butterfly.

Gassho
Mark
ST

[Jundo]

I will try my best to do just this, to think of my own thoughts as no different to a butterfly.

Gassho
Mark
ST

Don't "try," just let the butterfly fly.

(Hey, that rhymes!)

Gassho, JSTLah

[Bion]

Don't "try," just let the butterfly fly.

(Hey, that rhymes!)

Gassho, JSTLah

Next book: “Jundo’s zen rhymes” … *just saying*
[emoji6] [emoji1374]

Sat Today

[Jundo]

Next book: “Jundo’s zen rhymes” … *just saying*
[emoji6] [emoji1374]

Sat Today

There was a Roshi from Nantucket ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[Bion]

There was a Roshi from Nantucket ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[emoji375] sold! [emoji1]

[emoji1374] Sat today

[JohnS]

How do you drop body mind without the thought of dropping them? Isn't that thought then just a distraction?

Gassho

John

SATToday

[Jundo]

How do you drop body mind without the thought of dropping them? Isn't that thought then just a distraction?

How do we breathe, sometimes with and sometimes without thought of breathing?

Sit and find out.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tomás ESP]

How do you drop body mind without the thought of dropping them? Isn't that thought then just a distraction?

Gassho

John

SATToday

Just sit. No need to do anything else during Shikantaza (other than adopting a stable and balanced posture). We can create whole scenes in our heads of what this means, or how we should do it. Am I doing it right? Should I focus on my breathing? But we forget the simple yet complete instruction: Just sit. I really recommend reading Jundo's book to understand what this "Just sitting" entails, it is really helping me

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Tobiishi]

Do you happen to remember the talk? I think I have been trying to re-find this for some time.

Gassho,
William
Sat

"Keep calm when your mind is wild" Mingyur Rinpoche

[Meian]

"Keep calm when your mind is wild" Mingyur Rinpoche

Thank you for this.

Gassho2, meian stlh

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Tai Shi]

Lead chants. Onkai gone, rakusu. gift, 30 min. Robe Verse, zazen, chimed. Which first chant. Buddha. Dharma. Sangha. chime, zazen, sometimes shikantaza, clock, I chime, bell, Thank you for sitting with me, he says, "You do a very good job." I am grateful it's over, happy and smiling. Thank you Onkai.
Gassho
sat/ lah

[Getchi]

Wow, too complicated! I even had to look up the definition of "phoneme," thinking that you were telephoning someone during Zazen!

[phoneme, in linguistics, smallest unit of speech distinguishing one word (or word element) from another]

You are trying to stop thoughts. We don't try to stop thoughts. We simply don't latch on and get tangled in them.

Is it an "effort" to not grab something, or does one simply not grab it (which seems like the very opposite of effort!)?

If a butterfly, flutters into the room, and you just let it flutter, then flutter out again, it is no effort. You don't have to worry, "Do I not think about it at 1 flutter, at 2 wings and a flutter?" You don't have to make an "effort" not to reach out and grab it as it flutters by your hand. Just let it flutter in and out. The butterfly does all the work, not you.



I actually have no idea what the above sentences mean, but I can say that this is NOT Shikantaza.

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

This is exactly what I needed to hear right now, thankyou jundo for this teaching.

Effortless effort, no matter what we want, we are still "doing" something. Sometimes my mind is the same in meditation as it is in not-meditation, and that is okay.


Knowing I feel better on this path then before I started, is the only measure.

Gassho,
SatToday
Leah.

[Late]

You are trying to stop thoughts. We don't try to stop thoughts. We simply don't latch on and get tangled in them.

Is it an "effort" to not grab something, or does one simply not grab it (which seems like the very opposite of effort!)?

If a butterfly, flutters into the room, and you just let it flutter, then flutter out again, it is no effort. You don't have to worry, "Do I not think about it at 1 flutter, at 2 wings and a flutter?" You don't have to make an "effort" not to reach out and grab it as it flutters by your hand. Just let it flutter in and out. The butterfly does all the work, not you.




Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

I am in a point where I'm still practising to sit zazen reguralry even five minutes daily, so I don't have clue if I am doing it right.

I have to ask about quote above: when I'm sitting, thougts come to my mind, like "Oh, I have to do this and that". After that comes thought like "I have to remember that", and then "How I remember that? Should I write it down?".

When I notice that pattern, I try to convince myself, that just now I am sitting, so I don't do anything else. I try to tell myself, that if those things are so important, they come back to me sooner or later. Just now I'm sitting. Is that even near what You meant by

We don't try to stop thoughts. We simply don't latch on and get tangled in them.

Or am I putting too much effort to not to stop thoughts?

Gassho
Late

LaH