time and attainment do not matter

[Jundo]

.
The most important aspect of Shikantaza is to sit and attain the feeling, deep in the bones, that "time and attainment do not matter." All is attained in the moment of just allowing this moment of just allowing, free of attaining. It is not voiced, not a thought particularly, and is just a feeling of profound conviction coming from somewhere that "time and attainment do not matter."

Now, Shikantaza is a strange animal:

How much time is needed to attain the feeling that "time and attainment do not matter?"

Some folks need 30 minutes to truly attain the feeling that "time and attainment do not matter." Some folks need 15 minutes of sitting. For other folks, even 3 days is not enough sometimes. Other days (each day is unique), it may take only a snap of the fingers to attain the feeling that "time and attainment do not matter." That's how much time it takes to attain "time and attainment do not matter."
.

Most important point: "time and attainment do not matter."


Gassho, J

STLah

[Suuko]

The first thing that comes to my mind after reading this is "Drop your body and mind". If something had to be attained, it would make our practice less sacred.

Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.

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[Nengyoku]

My best example of this was a time I was frustrated at work after a lengthy repair that I thought was finished became a second lengthy repair to re-repair what I had just re-repaired. I sat still for a moment, as close to our zazen posture as I could perform in our computer chairs, and in seconds I felt it all drop away. Time is seemingly so vast that we are ants in comparison, and yet it is also so infinitesimal as to fit perfectly into just this moment. Truly a humbling experience.

Gassho,
William
Sat

[Gregor]

I spend most if my time sitting very wrapped up in body and posture as I am unconfortable. I hope it will get better as I limber up and keep sitting daily. Mind and body do drop away for brief instances.

Regardless the struggle is likely good practice.

Gassho,
Gregor
ST
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[Anchi]

The centre is timeless - and can be entered from anywhere within the time-space continuum.


Sorry for running a bit long.


Gassho

[Suuko]

I spend most if my time sitting very wrapped up in body and posture as I am unconfortable. I hope it will get better as I limber up and keep sitting daily. Mind and body do drop away for brief instances.

Regardless the struggle is likely good practice.

Gassho,
Gregor
ST
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Suzuki said that those who struggle with Zazen find the most benefits from the practice. Good luck with your practice, brother.

Gassho,
Guish.

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[Jundo]

The first thing that comes to my mind after reading this is "Drop your body and mind".

If one truly truly truly sat "time and attainment do not matter," there is realization of "dropping body and mind" (no need to say "your").

Why?

Because it is the bodymind that measures time and wants attainments that matter.

Gassho, J

ST

[Shinshi]

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Tomás ESP]

Beautiful Thank you for that Jundo.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Tobiishi]

I was listening to a talk on YouTube earlier during which the monk mentioned that the area he is from near Lhasa has many steep hills. Going up the hills is hard, and going down the hills is easy, but whether one is going up or down, one is still moving toward Lhasa.

Kodo Tobiishi sat today

[Juki]

The centre is timeless - and can be entered from anywhere within the time-space continuum.


Sorry for running a bit long.

Gassho

I like that. It reminds me of a passage of the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I don't recall it exactly, but something like "the naked, spotless intellect is like a transparent vacuum, without circumference or center. "

Thank you, Jundo. Sorry for going long.

Gassho,
Juki

sat today and lah

[Nengyoku]

I was listening to a talk on YouTube earlier during which the monk mentioned that the area he is from near Lhasa has many steep hills. Going up the hills is hard, and going down the hills is easy, but whether one is going up or down, one is still moving toward Lhasa.

Kodo Tobiishi sat today

Do you happen to remember the talk? I think I have been trying to re-find this for some time.

Gassho,
William
Sat

[Tairin]

Thank you Jundo


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Rousei]

I have been at times torn asunder during Shikantaza as a result of thoughts arising. A thought begins to arise, do I allow it to fully form (in the sense that once a single phoneme arises do I allow it to conclude in a unit of meaning, a word and/or then a sentence) and then let it go, or do I cut it off as it arises. Either way it involves some 'effort'.

Some of the thoughts are about this such topic, about seeing any thought including thoughts of attainment as empty.

There are times I simply use that ethereal sense of movement, our focus of awareness so to speak, to guide intension. Intension to simply not judge and let the thoughts drift away at either level (don't allow words to form and allow a word or a sentence to form but not develop further) but even then that wordless motion of letting go is empty, as it involves judgement.

A beast Shikantaza certainly is, simply sitting in peaceful abiding, a frustratingly difficult at times thing to do.

It is what it is, whatever it is... and it will continue to be whatever.

Gassho
Mark
ST

[Jundo]

I was listening to a talk on YouTube earlier during which the monk mentioned that the area he is from near Lhasa has many steep hills. Going up the hills is hard, and going down the hills is easy, but whether one is going up or down, one is still moving toward Lhasa.

Kodo Tobiishi sat today

Maybe the Zen perspective is a little different ...

Going up the hill, going down the hill, the whole hill and all sides are all already Llasa. Keep walking.

Gassho, J

STLah