Jundo: I've had to suggest some to find a new teacher ... and it breaks my heart ...

[Jundo]

Dear All,

For 16 years, I have come to this place day in, day out, preaching and practicing the very same Shikantaza, hundreds of talks (and a whole book) about Master Dogen, Koans and Bowing, Incense and Sutras ... and it remains so today as much or more since we first started this place.

Somewhere along the lines though, I decided to talk a little ... just a little ... about what Zen might be tomorrow, in 10 or 100 years, not only today or 1000 years ago. Just talk about it and write about it a little.

And I do so while still preaching and practicing the very same Shikantaza, hundreds of talks about Master Dogen, Koans and Bowing, Incense and Sutras.

But that little talking about tomorrow, and the potential impact of science, technology and medicine on the future of Zen and Buddhism seems to bother some folks so much, including priests, that they complain about it ... so much. So incredibly much! It has gotten to the point that I have had to ask folks to go if it bothers them so, to find another teacher, if I am not right for them now. I don't know what else to say. It is truly heart-breaking, I feel like I will lose family and, if you ask me, it is more than a little ridiculous.

But this is how Buddhism has evolved over the centuries: I can only promise that, for how many more years I have here, I will continue each day to preach and practice the very same Shikantaza, Master Dogen, Koans and Bowing, Incense and Sutras ... that will never change ... never ... never ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPS_mlgLnMM

With tears ...

Gassho, Jundo

[Tokan]

Hi all

I guess I have mixed feelings about this situation. It is sad if some people who have given so much to this sangha move on, but at the same time, is this also not a part of zen history? Monks and priests apparently moved around quite a bit. I feel sad we are going to lose their influence, insight and kindness around here, but then they are following their hearts, so that is not a sad thing. I am sorry to see Jundo looking troubled and in some ways I am at a loss as to how this escalated to this point. Regardless of who is right or wrong (if there is a right or wrong), this situation has clearly led to suffering within this sangha. In a world divided for so many reasons these days, I hope we can at least continue to support each other on our respective journeys through life, whether part of this sangha or elsewhere. The world ain't THAT big a place after all.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Jundo]

Hi all

I guess I have mixed feelings about this situation. It is sad if some people who have given so much to this sangha move on, but at the same time, is this also not a part of zen history? Monks and priests apparently moved around quite a bit. I feel sad we are going to lose their influence, insight and kindness around here, but then they are following their hearts, so that is not a sad thing. I am sorry to see Jundo looking troubled and in some ways I am at a loss as to how this escalated to this point. Regardless of who is right or wrong (if there is a right or wrong), this situation has clearly led to suffering within this sangha. In a world divided for so many reasons these days, I hope we can at least continue to support each other on our respective journeys through life, whether part of this sangha or elsewhere. The world ain't THAT big a place after all.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Seiga]

Jundo: I've had to suggest some to find a new teacher ... and it breaks my heart ...

Some knots come loose.
Some seams open up.
Some thread breaks.
The robe remains.

Gassho
SatToday
Seiga

[JohnS]

Teacher,

Even when there are times I don't agree with something you may say, I take it all as part of the whole of having you as my teacher.

I remain

Gassho

John

About to sit today

[Fâtih]

Dear Teacher;

You're preaching a new upaya for wellbeing of the man.

I humbly praise your that bodhisattva action.


Gassho

Fâtih

Sati

[Houzan]

Sometimes we have to let go in order to keep the relationship going. Sometimes we have to let go of the relationship itself. In all this we do our best to treat each other with compassion. When we make a mistake we repent. It’s all good.

I look forward to more future-Buddhism teachings[emoji120]

Gassho, Michael
Satlah

[Shujin]

For those who are leave, you will be missed. I hope that you find what you are looking for. For those who remain, I hope that we can treat each other with greater respect. We have created a world in which we ask for freedom of thought and expression for ourselves, but conformity for others. There are worse things than disagreement.

Gassho,
Shujin

-Sat Today-

[Mokuso]

till dig Jundo !
Sat today. Mokuso

[Guest]

I to am saddened that people have left. All have given so much to this sangha and I will be forever grateful because what they have done for the sangha will continue to inform what I do in the sangha and will inform others that come. I have had experiences with sanghas in the past where the need for people to leave was one that was necessary for all involved. But, that never makes it easy.

I am not sure as to what brought people to leave, if it was the topics being discussed or how they were being discussed. Some know my history and what I have experienced in the sangha that I come from. Some even asked what took me so long to leave. Well, it is never easy to leave when there are people in the sangha that continue to need help. I stayed in a difficult situation for many years, because quite frankly there was no one else that could continue to lead a local sangha of which no one had any involvement in what transpired and still wanted to practice. I did not leave until there was an opportunity for others to step up and help. In my situation, because each situation for each person is different, and when people come to a place where they feel they can no longer be a part of a sangha, it is almost always an extremely difficult decision. For that I have respect for bringing up the courage to leave when leaving is what seems to be the best thing to do. I also know from my own experience, that the reason I did not leave right away was to take time to make sure that I was making the right decision. In one moment we may think it is the right thing to do, but then realize later it was not. So, we sit with it for a while. My guess is that if people came to this conclusion, it was something they had been thinking about for some time.

I also can imagine how hard this is for Jundo. These are people that have had an ongoing, long-term relation with each other, and it is sad that things did not work out, but perhaps moved in the direction that was necessary, at least for now.

As Tokan points out, this is not unusual for students to go from teacher to teacher sometimes. I did this too. Although I spent 21 years with one group of teachers, I found out that it was my first Zen teacher, a Soto teacher that has remained as having the deepest impact on my practice and my life.

The topic of exploring science and technology is something I have been doing with my practice since 1997. I have always been curious about the potential impact of science, technology and medicine on the future of Zen and Buddhism and visa versa. It is because of the research that was and is being done in neuroscience and mindfulness-based interventions that I went and trained for many years to become a mindfulness-based teacher. This was a way to bridge my Zen practice with the clinical work I do with clients. When I hear Jundo talk about these things that science may potentially offer us, it is exciting because I too am very interested in how we can help people with these advances while being cautious of how they could also be misused. If our direction is to save all beings, we have an obligation to explore what can be done to help as many people as we can and at the same time protect others if these advances can harm.

As someone who was a lay priest in the Korean Zen tradition, I had opportunities to officiate several funerals, weddings, and baby ceremonies. When the time came for these things, it was the priestly duty to carry them out. When time came to lead practice, chant, light incense, and sit zazen, that was done too. But there were other times where helping someone manage depression and anxiety or grief and loss required more traditional psychotherapy and at other times blending in more clinical approaches to how mindfulness helps with this. (There is a reason why mindfulness-based approaches have been embraced by the counseling professions as being the third wave of cognitive-behavioral therapy). So, I welcome the opportunity to continue to investigate all the things we can possibly do to help others with their suffering. I do not turn away from the impact of science and technology that may some day offer more opportunities for us to address suffering. Someone who is a priest and at the same time embraces the potentials of these advancements also has to be good with keeping clear boundaries for when strictly priestly duties are required and when other kinds of interventions are required. Sometimes, the lines are not so clear and this is when skillful means is appropriate.

I personally thank Jundo for being open and honest about this. This is never an easy thing when family members in the sangha decide to leave. Perhaps some will return....who knows.

Gassho,

Daiman
St/LAH

[Seiko]

With tears ...

I've been told that humans are quite prone to misunderstandings. Strange creatures, humans.

I hope the leavers will continue their practice. I will remember them when I prepare to sit each day.

The future is on it's way, whatever we think about it.

In times of sadness, we Brits usually make a cup of tea...

When I first showed up here, someone once said to me, "In life we have many teachers". Oh, yes, I remember now, it was Jundo.

No sugar in mine thanks.

Gasshō
Seiko
stlah

[paulashby]

Thank you Jundo for simply being Jundo. Through three master's degrees and a doctoral degree I
never had a teacher that I agreed with on every issue and topic. I had little debates with a professor
of Hindu studies at Princeton. I argued with a Baptist professor at Wake Forest until he raised each person
in class a full letter grade after no one made an A. But I often learned more from teachers that challenged
me and I respected them. It is a great freedom to simply be free to disagree and learn from points of
difference.
I have learned something from every Buddhist teacher in my evolution. A beginner's mind is open,questioning
and exploring. My hope is that anyone feeling a sense of alienation would touch again that space- place that
is beginner's mind.
Spirituality can become a rigid security blanket- I see it all the time in Christian circles and sadly even in Interfaith
dialogue that requires a listening openess and capacity to find the good in those who do not share our perspectives.
The most kind person I have ever known named Jane was the mother figure of an entire church community of 325
people. If she had lived into covid era her heart felt hugs could have wiped out the entire church! But she had a friend
of 27 years who never spoke to her again after she had to change one vacation plan after 27 years of joint vacations.
I felt grief for Jane and her friend and the future they did not write together.
I hear your grief Jundo and wish for healing and compassion for all. Thank you for being you.

Gassho, peace, Paul sat lah

[Ankai]

Back in the early days when Treeleaf was more like Sapling-bud, the entire concept of "online" ANYTHING was new and weird, much less online Zen. A great many people told us it was a bunch of nonsense, Dharma cannot be transmitted over the internet, in-person sitting was the ONLY valid way, online "religion" was fake... etc. We were mocked, derided and looked down on by much of the Buddhist community (ironically, on online web pages... the old "message boards...") Many prominent teachers publicly derided and dismissed...
BUT THEN... (Ominous music... DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNN...)
Businesses started telecommuting. Houses of worship started offering interactive online services for shut-ins. Facebook and Youtube took off. Skype (then Zoom) came along.
ANNNND...
it all worked. It worked SO WELL, that suddenly...
COVID.
Remember Covvid? the lockdowns? And what happened? Just about EVERYTHING went live online. EVERYTHING.

And... all those in-person Sanghas, Zendos and Meditation Centers... ALL WENT VIRTUAL, just so they could continue to exist at all. And who was the Sangha at the mighty vanguard of online sitting???
Yep. Us. Treeleaf. The Little Sangha that Could.

Now? EVERYBODY is online. It's nothing new, or weird. They have all come around. In fact, they've all seen how what we've been doing for a little less than 20 years is actually not only legitimate, it's VITAL.

I'm saying all this because the ONLY REASON WE ARE EVEN HERE is that our dear Jundo looked at the future, delved into the technology and came up with this idea. We may or may not have been first, but, we're STILL HERE, and what others now take simply as a matter of course was something we fought for because we believed in Treeleaf and Jundo's vision for what it could be... and now, IS.
So... yeah. The Big J looks at technology. He looks at the future. He sees the possibilities and dreams up ways to apply modern capability to ancient practices and philosophy. And that is precisely how we got to Treeleaf in the first place.

THAT'S WHO WE ARE.

I personally have been on this voyage in one way or another since 2007, and so far, though we've sailed some uncharted waters, we've come to an amazing place, and the seas ahead offer nothing but greater possibilities, challenges and opportunities.

At this point, it makes absolutely no sense to me to question the Captain who brought us this far, except to say, "How can I help?"


Sat today.


-Karl

[Mokuseki]

Thank you Jundo for your wisdom and openness. I joined Treeleaf, after several groups (over the last 40 years) precisely because of this wonderful Sangha's inclusiveness and recognition of the changes that are transforming our world with ever increasing alacrity. Didn't the Buddha himself say that "change is never painful, only the resistance to change is painful".
Gassho
Sat today

[DGF]

Thank you Jundo,
For this message i dont have anything to add everything is already said in the previous comments

Gassho
Diana
Sat/lah