Split Thread: Sitting Long and Short

[Kyousui]

JUNDO NOTE: HOPE IT IS OKAY THAT I SPLIT OFF THIS THREAD

Tai Shi, I have read before that sitting for longer than twenty-five minutes at a time is not necessarily beneficial, but sometimes harmful.

I have seen many F@F and virtual sittings set up by priests that go 30 to 45 minutes. My opinion is, do what comes naturally but build slowly to get used to longer sits. For me with longer sits, I get practice dealing with the craving/aversion of sitting and eagerness by monkey mind to do something else, anything else.

[Geika]

Tom, of course many people sit longer. My point was to avoid feeling like it was necessary to do so and push oneself too hard.

Gassho, sat today

[Risho]

Yeah sitting time is a tricky topic; I think we all know what is right for ourselves, but Jundo's 15 minute minimum is a good start. During Ango, I started copying Marina who would sit for 45 mins regularly! So I started doing it because it feels right, and sometimes I like to push my comfort zone; I think I'm part masochist. lol Seriously, I personally feel it adds to my practice when I push it a little, but if I feel like it gets a little too much I might add more. heheh or I need to backoff. No need for time or posture fetish ( to steal from Jishin - love the posture fetish hahahah).

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Jundo]

Do what one can, neither too hard or too lose. Know you own body and mind, and neither give up too easily nor pushing oneself to harm.

I can't get this across to folks enough: Sitting is not a matter of counting time, not a matter of time at all. One must sit beyond time ... in just this moment, and this moment and this ...

Teachers who say one must sit certain minutes to get the "physical effect" of Zazen are not wrong, but they tend to be too instrumental about the Practice. They miss the forest for the trees if they are too rigid in such measurements.

Whether sitting long or short, sit beyond time. Sit, as well, on the cushion and off (folks also don't take seriously enough how life "off the cushion" is still an endless chances for "Zazen" ... and that "Zazen" is also walking, standing and everyplace, and is not only sitting on a cushion facing the wall! I am reading right now a book that many of the "Greats" of the Tang and Song Dynasty may have actually felt that Zazen "off the cushion" was as or more vital than sitting.)

That being said, sometimes we get on the cushion or bench and face the wall, sitting short (a few seconds, a minute, 15 minutes, 30 minutes) or sitting long (hours, days, weeks or a lifetime) ... all to realize this fact of "beyond time" and "everyplace."

So, do not think of "long vs. short" even when sitting long, and even when sitting short. (A Koan)

Gassho, J

SatToday

SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13634-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Why-Zen-Folks-FAIL%21%21-%285%29-Watching-The-Clock-Rackin-Up-Points

So many Zen students think that the longer they sit the better. They believe 10 years surpasses 10 months or 10 days, which must be better than 10 hours, which is better than 10 minutes or seconds. They treat Zazen like a taxi meter or points to rack up, the more they sit the closer they are to the goal. They equate more and more sitting with going deeper and deeper, or becoming more and more peaceful, or more and more "Buddha-like", or more and more "enlightened".

However, Zazen only truly hits the mark when all measure of time and score, goals and attainment are dropped away. Only then does a moment of sitting contain all time, only then does one realize the destination ever present. Zazen is thus very unlike many forms of meditation (not to mention very unlike our usual clock watching, tally counting, comparing and measuring, goal oriented attitude toward the rest of our busy lives) in which deeper and deeper attainments, and greater and greater achievements, add up with time.

[Mp]

Hello Tom,

At my local sitting group I have a variety of ages, so what I have done to meet everyones needs is set a general sit of 3 rounds of 15mins with two rounds of kinhin.

But during that time I do keep an eye on folks and see how they are doing during. If it looks like folks are sittin well I will adjust the times to a bit longer. If they are struggling for some reason I shorten them. After zazen I ask them if they noticed any difference and a lot say it is helpful to play around with the durations ... one person said that they noticed their body getting used to the 15mins, so when the bell didn't ring, their mind became busy. So it helped them not get fixated to a specific time or duration. =)

I know you sit with me from time to time, which I enjoy very much. But please know that if you need to leave early or if to sit for just a short moment is what you need, then do that. There is no need to sit the full 30mins. Whether there for a moment or 30mins, it is all good. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

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