Fear of death

[Banto]

The question to myself is not if there is life after death
But is there life before death

Gassho
Rodney SatToday

[Jishin]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Lovely.

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS - Apparently he didn't really say it quite like that, and it is a paraphrase of something else he said kinda like that ... but good enough. He should have said it like that.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=81874

[Jishin]

I read it in the internet so it's true. [emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Sekishi]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I remember my grandfather quoting that to me when I was 8 or 9 and freaking out about death. I don't recall that it helped at all. [emoji52]

Gassho,
Sekishi


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[Jishin]

I remember my grandfather quoting that to me when I was 8 or 9 and freaking out about death. I don't recall that it helped at all. [emoji52]

Gassho,
Sekishi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have 2 boys, 7 and 11. The 11 year old has a more fragil temperament and has had difficulties with the topic of death. I think it first emanated from a WWII vet who was close to 90 and walked with my in laws at the mall before the mall opened. My in laws took my son with them walking several times per week and he was much younger at the time. Sam was the fellow's name. Very kind and gentle human being. He gave my son candy (he was 4-5?) every time he saw him at the mall several times per week. One day Sam was gone. He has been exposed to death since. My 2 grandmother in laws who died in their 90's and pets. Sometimes when he gets tired he cries and after a while he coughs up that he misses Sam. He was too young to remember Sam very well I think.

I have interpreted this to mean that he fears the death of loved ones and so I have tried to intellectuallize as best as can death with him. I have used Christian, Buddhist and Scientific philosophy. Whatever works.

When he has been very sad I made him sit with me for 30 minutes and this ameliorated things right away.

I think exposure is also good. In Western culture we hide our elderly because death is around the corner and we fear death. Not so much in Eastern cultures. When my mother was in a dementia unit prior to her passing, I made a point of bringing both my sons to see her and also expose them to the other patients there who were thrilled to see young children.

My wife, father in law and some friends talk medicine in front of the kids. This is also good exposure. We also have "Bones", a human size skeleton (plastic) in the living room by the fire place. Bones was a skeleton we purchased for Halloween but somehow he wound up in our living room 4 years ago and has never left. 2 xmas ago Bones became Ms. Bones after we dressed it up in a red dress.

I think it is a primordial concern for all living things to avoid death to propagate the species. All beings follow the pleasure principle where the least painful or more pleasurable outcome is sought. No problems with the animal kingdom. They fight to survive but then when its over its over. Our ability to think and plan has evolved to unhealthy levels. It's best just to seek advice from a dog or cat.

"Say dog, are you scared of dying?" He would probably turn his head just a tad sideways and maybe wag his tail. And that's the answer. The answer to fear of dying. But if somebody shot him, he may answer differently on the way out. And that's the answer.

Anyway, I am babbling.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Robaato]

Very interesting topic, thank you for bringing that up. One night, when I was six or seven years old, I laid in my bed thinking about the universe and at some point I was realizing that "I" am going to die someday. (Maybe because I lost my grandfather too early.) I still hear me saying and crying at the same time: "I don't want to die." and I suddenly felt asleep.

And later on, during my youth, thinking about death and dying became a part of my life. My two best friends died in their early twenties.

I fear death, not because of not existing. I fear it because I still want to get some things done. So, for me it's not really death that makes me feeling frustrated. It's more about the crazy thoughts that make me want to live for aeons.

Thank you for posting the article of brother David Steindl-Rast, he's a great teacher. Does anybody has some good book recommendations on overcoming the fear of death? Thank you, I hope you all have a happy new year!

[Jishin]

Fear of death

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Anxiety can be expressed as fear. Some anxiety is necessary to live. It provides mental energy to function. No anxiety all the time is not good. I would stay on my couch, order take out pizza and watch Netflix all day. Nothing would get done. Too much anxiety is not a good thing. It can be paralyzing. At the very peak of the anxiety pyramid are panic attacks. Panic attacks = intense fear of death. Absolutely nothing gets done. In Shikantaza we learn to face anxiety (fears) in a healthy way, including the fear of death.

On the other hand, from the Heart Sutra:

"...With no hindrance of the mind, no hindrance - therefore no fear,
No fear, no job, no money, no clothing, no food, no nothing.."

Go figure.



Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Rich]

Just want to be aware when I'm dying because I don't remember before I was born ☺ and it's kind of the same, right? 😊

SAT today

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[Ugrok]

Thank you very much for all those insights.

My father died when i was 22, and i was here for his last breathe. It was 11 years ago and now, for whatever reason, i have dreams of this moment. Well, i know why : it started in the halloween period, and we did not go on his grave this year. A few months ago i did not fear death, at least not in an "anxious" way, more in a normal way. Anxiety and fear of death started at this moment, around halloween. It's like i'm convinced somehow that his death means my death or something, i don't really know - as i f i was roleplaying his death... What is strange is that his death was in a way reassuring : it was so simple, so quiet, just the breathe stopping and that's it. Everything just kept on as always.

I try to let go of it, to accept the fear, and things get better slowly, but it's still there and i don't want to live all my life obsessed with this question...

Gassho,

Uggy
Sat Today

[Rich]

Very sorry you are obsessed by this. As we keep sitting, somehow these obsessions are transformed and some space opens so we can be present . Maybe go to his grave now, to honor his life and all he gave you.

SAT today

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[Jundo]

While I was looking for a reference to the Two Moons Koan, I came across this beautiful short talk by Katagiri Roshi on "Facing Life and Death." I hope you can read the few pages here ...

Not long after, Katagiri also left this visible world from illness.

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=izfqAwAAQBAJ&dq=Ungan+Sweeps+two+moons&q=%22life+and+death+are+not+separate%22#v=snippet&q=%22life%20and%20death%20are%20not%20separate%22&f=false

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Ugrok]

While I was looking for a reference to the Two Moons Koan, I came across this beautiful short talk by Katagiri Roshi on "Facing Life and Death." I hope you can read the few pages here ...

Not long after, Katagiri also left this visible world from illness.

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=izfqAwAAQBAJ&dq=Ungan+Sweeps+two+moons&q=%22life+and+death+are+not+separate%22#v=snippet&q=%22life%20and%20death%20are%20not%20separate%22&f=false

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

Thanks a lot, Jundo. I'm gonna read that book, this extract rung a few bells.

Gassho,

Uggy
Sat Today

[Ugrok]

Well, reading that book right now, and it's incredible ! Thanks again for the recommandation, Jundo. Turns out i got it all wrong, as always, hahaha...

Uggy,

Sat Today

[JimH]

I used to fear death as well. It kept me up more than a couple of nights, when I was a child....I didn't want to get older, didn't want to grow old, didn't want to die. It was all very scary, thinking about it in the dark.

Many years ago, I found out that I had cancer. It was at a fairly advanced stage, but could still be stopped. I fought hard against it with chemo and radiation, and ultimately had surgery to remove the stuff. During the treatments, I had to face the fact that I had a potentially life ending disease, and I had to learn to deal with it. My fears were particularly underlined when I had to sign the consent forms for surgery, and they included the words to the effect that, if I died during the operation, my family wouldn't sue the hospital or doctor. However, when I realized that if I died during the operation, I wouldn't know it, that fear quickly left.

Now, I look at things a bit differently. Sure, occasionally I think about death, but more as an annoyance that might come up and leave some things undone in my life. To avoid that annoyance, I try to finish everything I can, and make sure that I don't have any "regrets", just in case. I like to think that I don't fear dying as much as I fear *not living*.....so every day that wake up above ground, so to speak, I try to make the most of it. Never know when it could be the last one, right?

We all suffer from a terminal condition: life. Dying is part of that, and is natural. Like other fears, it only has power over you if you let it have power over you. Death will come when the time is right; until then, don't think about or obsess about death. Instead, pay attention to life.

Gassho--

--JimH (SatToday!)