On enlightenment

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  • Ryumon
    Member
    • Apr 2007
    • 1706

    On enlightenment

    "Buddhist enlightenment is not simply a more mindful adaptation to our unfortunate existential condition, nor is it attaining some other dimension that is distinct from and therefore indifferent to this world. Rather, it is a transformative realization that the world as we usually experience it (including the way that I usually experience myself) is neither real nor unreal but a psychological and social construction that can be deconstructed and reconstructed, which is what happens when one follows the Buddhist path."

    David R. Loy, A New Buddhist Path

    I've just started reading this book which is fascinating. One of the main thrusts of the book is whether the idea of enlightenment as taught by the Buddha was immanent (of this world, something to be attained through life) or transcendent (beyond this world, the extinction of death and rebirth). This is certainly one of the key questions that arises as we discuss which direction Buddhism may take in the west.

    Gassho,

    Kirk
    ---
    Ryūmon (Kirk)
    流文

    SAT/LAH

    I know nothing.
  • Jishin
    Member
    • Oct 2012
    • 4820

    #2
    What does one do with enlightenment?

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

    Comment

    • Myosha
      Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 2974

      #3
      Originally posted by Jishin
      What does one do with enlightenment?

      Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

      Please have tea?


      Gassho
      Myosha sat today
      "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

      Comment

      • Jishin
        Member
        • Oct 2012
        • 4820

        #4
        Originally posted by Myosha
        Please have tea?

        Yes. Please. I'll take a splash of milk with two cubes of sugar in mine.

        Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

        Comment

        • Rich
          Member
          • Apr 2009
          • 2601

          #5
          Originally posted by Jishin
          What does one do with enlightenment?

          Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

          Nothing. Non doing.

          Lao Tzu said
          The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
          The name that can be named is not the eternal name
          The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
          The named is the mother of myriad things
          Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence
          Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
          These two emerge together but differ in name
          The unity is said to be the mystery
          Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

          SAT today
          _/_
          Rich
          MUHYO
          無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

          https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

          Comment

          • Jishin
            Member
            • Oct 2012
            • 4820

            #6
            Originally posted by Rich

            Lao Tzu said
            Blah, blah, blah...

            How would you like your tea Rich?

            Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

            Comment

            • Rich
              Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 2601

              #7
              With honey, thanks.

              😊
              SAT today
              _/_
              Rich
              MUHYO
              無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

              https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 39454

                #8
                Actually, I think it is an important point that David Loy is making.

                There is a tendency in Buddhism to "reify" (turn into a thing or "Great Cosmic Being") such important concepts as "Emptiness" "Buddha Nature" "Big 'B' Buddha" "Dharmakhaya" and the like. Some wise Zen folks of old would warn against this, for the simple reason that it stuffs these into little mental concepts, and also creates a division between "you" and "it". The more you try to nail them down and turn them into an object, the more you miss the forest for the trees. Other folks would remind us that the Buddha cautioned against "eternalism" and a big "Brahma" Self, so if that creeps back into Buddhism, it is not the Buddha's teachings.

                In fact, I believe that each can be defined purely psychologically as the mind changing its usually "day to day" model of the world which is recreated between the ears (and which is highly divided with names, categories and judgments including "subject/object" birth and death and so much more) by replacing that with an alternative model (not simply intellectual, because it is the actual lived experience of life, the actual experience of life as much as you are seeing out of your eyes right now) which simply drops all that dualism. One then immerses in a reality by which "self" and birth/death and all the other complexities of the world wash away。It is then a matter of personal psychology rather than cosmic metaphysics and ontology. (There is even a further "mental" model in which the two mental models are encountered as "not two", but that is off our topic).

                However, even better is to do what Rich, Jishin and Myosha have done above in this thread ... which is to leave the whole thing be (or better said, "let it be or not be or something else all together" ) and have a cup of tea.

                Gassho, Jundo
                Last edited by Jundo; 01-25-2016, 04:43 AM.
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • alan.r
                  Member
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 546

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jishin
                  Blah, blah, blah...

                  How would you like your tea Rich?

                  Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
                  I'll have mine with Lao Tzu's words poured into the cup, with your blahs in the cup, with Myosha's please in the cup, with Kirk's sharing in the cup, with Jundo's explication in the cup, but without two cubes of sugar because why would anyone force all those little grains into a cube? It's like polishing a tile into a mirror. It won't ever be a perfect cube. Don't worry about the cube, just use a spoon; don't worry about the mirror, just polish.

                  Gassho,
                  Alan
                  sat today
                  Shōmon

                  Comment

                  • Mp

                    #10
                    Originally posted by alan.r
                    I'll have mine with Lao Tzu's words poured into the cup, with your blahs in the cup, with Myosha's please in the cup, with Kirk's sharing in the cup, with Jundo's explication in the cup, but without two cubes of sugar because why would anyone force all those little grains into a cube? It's like polishing a tile into a mirror. It won't ever be a perfect cube. Don't worry about the cube, just use a spoon; don't worry about the mirror, just polish.

                    Gassho,
                    Alan
                    sat today
                    Yes, just the way I like it too.

                    Gassho
                    Shingen

                    #sattoday

                    Comment

                    • Joyo

                      #11
                      Originally posted by alan.r
                      I'll have mine with Lao Tzu's words poured into the cup, with your blahs in the cup, with Myosha's please in the cup, with Kirk's sharing in the cup, with Jundo's explication in the cup, but without two cubes of sugar because why would anyone force all those little grains into a cube? It's like polishing a tile into a mirror. It won't ever be a perfect cube. Don't worry about the cube, just use a spoon; don't worry about the mirror, just polish.

                      Gassho,
                      Alan
                      sat today

                      Ha, love it!! Me too.

                      Gassho,
                      Joyo
                      sat today

                      Comment

                      • Jishin
                        Member
                        • Oct 2012
                        • 4820

                        #12
                        Originally posted by alan.r
                        I'll have mine with Lao Tzu's words poured into the cup, with your blahs in the cup, with Myosha's please in the cup, with Kirk's sharing in the cup, with Jundo's explication in the cup, but without two cubes of sugar because why would anyone force all those little grains into a cube? It's like polishing a tile into a mirror. It won't ever be a perfect cube. Don't worry about the cube, just use a spoon; don't worry about the mirror, just polish.

                        Gassho,
                        Alan
                        sat today
                        :-)

                        Gassho, Jishin, ST

                        PS: I'll take a splash of milk (ONE) with two (TWO) cubes of sugar in mine. (Not one, not two).
                        Last edited by Jishin; 01-25-2016, 05:32 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Shinzan
                          Member
                          • Nov 2013
                          • 338

                          #13
                          "Move down! New cups! New cups!"
                          The mad hatter

                          =) Shinzan

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