Prajna Paramita

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  • Caisson
    Member
    • May 2015
    • 50

    Prajna Paramita

    It says at the beginning of the Heart Sutra that the bodhisattva practiced the Prajna Paramita. It was during this practice that form is emptiness, emptiness is form was realized. Is shikantaza the same as practicing Prajna Paramita? Thanks for sharing your insights!

    Gassho,
    Caisson

    sattoday
  • Rich
    Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 2587

    #2
    I probably view prajnaparamita differently than most because I don't think there is a perfection of wisdom. I think wisdom is innate and part of every being in the universe but you have to allow it. So the practice meditation is a letting go of all the nonsense and the allowing prajna to appear.

    Something like that.
    SAT today
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 39078

      #3
      Originally posted by Caisson
      It says at the beginning of the Heart Sutra that the bodhisattva practiced the Prajna Paramita. It was during this practice that form is emptiness, emptiness is form was realized. Is shikantaza the same as practicing Prajna Paramita? Thanks for sharing your insights!

      Gassho,
      Caisson

      sattoday
      Well, some of us might feel so. How about you sit and find out for your self (and not your self too).

      Here is a question for you, although a mere empty formality: When you are sitting with beautiful form on your Zafu, is the Zafu empty?

      Gassho, J

      SatToday
      Last edited by Jundo; 01-19-2016, 05:49 PM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Jishin
        Member
        • Oct 2012
        • 4819

        #4
        Originally posted by Caisson
        It says at the beginning of the Heart Sutra that the bodhisattva practiced the Prajna Paramita. It was during this practice that form is emptiness, emptiness is form was realized. Is shikantaza the same as practicing Prajna Paramita? Thanks for sharing your insights!

        Gassho,
        Caisson

        sattoday
        I think that the Heart Sutra takes you to emptiness but it stops there. You (form) are emptiness and emptiness is form. It releases your suffering, but what about others? It points to the direction of releasing suffering in other beings (no hindrance of the mind, therefore no fear - to help others). So it takes you from form vs form (me against you) to form=emptiness (everything peachy with everyone - intellectually only), then stop. One more step is needed. You have to DO the right thing and tell others that the world is peachy. Sometimes it is a rotten peach. Sometimes a sweet peach. But it is a peach and nothing more. Form=form.

        I think in Shikantaza you skip form vs form, then form=emptiness and go directly to form=form. There is no intellectualizing about anything. You just sit and that is that. The world is a peach just as it is. Sometimes a rotten peach. Sometimes a tasty one. But a peach nevertheless. Less steps I think. Dunno.

        When people get that a peach is a peach then everything is peachy.

        So, to answer your question, they are not the same.

        That's my best stab at it.

        Gassho, Jishin, ST

        PS: I think that a shorter version of the Heart Sutra is the Koan Mu! If you don't have time for the Heart Sutra then just No! to your hearts content. But I think Koans are a two step process, first the problem/Koan, then realization of the Koan into life. Shikantaza goes to the source in one step.
        Last edited by Jishin; 01-19-2016, 07:09 PM. Reason: I am a moron.

        Comment

        • Risho
          Member
          • May 2010
          • 3179

          #5
          Originally posted by Rich
          I probably view prajnaparamita differently than most because I don't think there is a perfection of wisdom. I think wisdom is innate and part of every being in the universe but you have to allow it. So the practice meditation is a letting go of all the nonsense and the allowing prajna to appear.

          Something like that.
          SAT today
          Pretty damned awesome! I've never thought about it that way.

          Gassho,

          Risho
          -sattoday
          Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

          Comment

          • Rich
            Member
            • Apr 2009
            • 2587

            #6
            Well it might be awesome but it didn't help me win that Powerball jackpot. -) 😊 won't be building any monasteries anytime soon -) 😊
            Thanks Risho
            SAT today
            _/_
            Rich
            MUHYO
            無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

            https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

            Comment

            • Ryan379
              Member
              • Oct 2015
              • 64

              #7
              Originally posted by Jishin
              I think that the Heart Sutra takes you to emptiness but it stops there. You (form) are emptiness and emptiness is form. It releases your suffering, but what about others? It points to the direction of releasing suffering in other beings (no hindrance of the mind, therefore no fear - to help others). So it takes you from form vs form (me against you) to form=emptiness (everything peachy with everyone - intellectually only), then stop. One more step is needed. You have to DO the right thing and tell others that the world is peachy. Sometimes it is a rotten peach. Sometimes a sweet peach. But it is a peach and nothing more. Form=form.

              I think in Shikantaza you skip form vs form, then form=emptiness and go directly to form=form. There is no intellectualizing about anything. You just sit and that is that. The world is a peach just as it is. Sometimes a rotten peach. Sometimes a tasty one. But a peach nevertheless. Less steps I think. Dunno.

              When people get that a peach is a peach then everything is peachy.


              Gassho & Bows

              Ryan

              Sat Today
              Breathe...Relax...Let Go...

              Comment

              • Byokan
                Treeleaf Unsui
                • Apr 2014
                • 4269

                #8
                Originally posted by Jishin
                I think that the Heart Sutra takes you to emptiness but it stops there. You (form) are emptiness and emptiness is form. It releases your suffering, but what about others? It points to the direction of releasing suffering in other beings (no hindrance of the mind, therefore no fear - to help others). So it takes you from form vs form (me against you) to form=emptiness (everything peachy with everyone - intellectually only), then stop. One more step is needed. You have to DO the right thing and tell others that the world is peachy. Sometimes it is a rotten peach. Sometimes a sweet peach. But it is a peach and nothing more. Form=form.

                I think in Shikantaza you skip form vs form, then form=emptiness and go directly to form=form. There is no intellectualizing about anything. You just sit and that is that. The world is a peach just as it is. Sometimes a rotten peach. Sometimes a tasty one. But a peach nevertheless. Less steps I think. Dunno.

                When people get that a peach is a peach then everything is peachy.

                So, to answer your question, they are not the same.

                That's my best stab at it.

                Gassho, Jishin, ST

                PS: I think that a shorter version of the Heart Sutra is the Koan Mu! If you don't have time for the Heart Sutra then just No! to your hearts content. But I think Koans are a two step process, first the problem/Koan, then realization of the Koan into life. Shikantaza goes to the source in one step.
                No.



                Gassho
                Byōkan
                sat today
                展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

                Comment

                • Jishin
                  Member
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 4819

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Byokan
                  No.



                  Gassho
                  Byōkan
                  sat today
                  Yes!

                  Gassho, Jishin, ST

                  Comment

                  • Kyonin
                    Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 6739

                    #10
                    Hi Caisson,

                    Please drop it all and just sit.

                    The answer is just there.

                    Where?

                    It was here a bit ago

                    Gassho,

                    Kyonin
                    #SatToday
                    Hondō Kyōnin
                    奔道 協忍

                    Comment

                    • Caisson
                      Member
                      • May 2015
                      • 50

                      #11
                      Thank you for the replies everyone! I will sit and converse with the zafu.

                      Many bows,
                      Caisson

                      sattoday

                      Comment

                      • Juki
                        Member
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 771

                        #12
                        In his recent collection of Zen Chants, Kaz Tanahashi defines Prajna Paramita as "the mother of all Buddhas," and places it at the top of the lineage charts (both male and female) even above the Celestial Buddhas. I like that, it kind of makes Prajna Paramita an all-encompassing thing: a state of being that gives rise to wisdom, the practice of that wisdom, and the manifestation of that wisdom into human (and non-human) form to transmit the teachings.

                        But I do agree that you need to sit with this. Intellectual answers are not really answers.

                        Gassho,
                        Juki

                        #sattoday
                        "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 39078

                          #13
                          Hi Juki!

                          Hail friend.

                          On the Lineage Chart that many folks received for Jikai there is an Empty (or is it?) Circle before the Buddha's Name, a representation of such ...



                          Gassho, J

                          SatToday
                          Last edited by Jundo; 01-20-2016, 02:34 PM.
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • Juki
                            Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 771

                            #14
                            Jundo,

                            Hail to you (and to all). Empty/Not Empty? Indeed. It is the void that is charged with possibilities.

                            Gassho,
                            Juki

                            #sattoday
                            "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

                            Comment

                            • Mp

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Juki
                              Jundo,

                              Hail to you (and to all). Empty/Not Empty? Indeed. It is the void that is charged with possibilities.

                              Gassho,
                              Juki

                              #sattoday
                              Hey Juki, nice to see you. =)

                              Gassho
                              Shingen

                              #sattoday

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