The Heart Sutra

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  • Luciana
    Member
    • May 2015
    • 59

    The Heart Sutra

    Hello, all,

    I've recently been reading a book by Kazuaki Tanahashi and Joan Halifax, The Heart Sutra, which includes their intriguing new translation of the Heart Sutra. You can see the translation here:

    An illuminating in-depth study of one of the most well-known and recited Buddhist texts, by a renowned modern translator The Prajna Paramita Hridaya Sutra is among the best known of all the Buddhist scriptures. Chanted daily by many Zen practitioners, it is also studied extensively in the Tibetan tradition, and it has been regarded with interest more recently in the West in various fields of study—from philosophy to quantum physics. In just a few lines, it expresses the truth of impermanence and the release of suffering that results from the understanding of that truth with a breathtaking economy of language. Kazuaki Tanahashi’s guide to the Heart Sutra is the result of a life spent working with it and living it. He outlines the history and meaning of the text and then analyzes it line by line in its various forms (Sanskrit, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Tibetan, Mongolian, and various key English translations), providing a deeper understanding of the history and etymology of the elusive words than is generally available to the non-specialist—yet with a clear emphasis on the relevance of the text to practice. This book includes a fresh and meticulous new translation of the text by the author and Roshi Joan Halifax.


    The most striking thing is that what is usually translated as 'emptiness' is here translated as 'boundlessness'! This makes so much difference to me in understanding it. I hope that it is equally accurate. (I was glad to see that Jundo thinks that Tanahashi's translations of Dogen are reliable.) It seems really revolutionary. The whole translation is quite beautiful as well.

    Any thoughts on this?

    L.

    _/\_

    st
  • Luciana
    Member
    • May 2015
    • 59

    #2
    I see that the link above doesn't take one to the exact page on Google Books. You have to scroll down to the first page of Chapter 1.

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40597

      #3
      I am still waiting for mine to arrive!

      Yes, this "Emptiness" is not empty, or better said, it embodies all empty and full. I often try to express this as Fullness, Boundless, Wholeness ... and something as Dancing Dance ...

      Buddha-Basics (Part XVII) — The Dance of Emptiness
      Hi to "you" (who is not really the "you" you think you are), [scared] These days, I like to try to explain the Buddhist concept of "Sunyata" (Emptiness) using the image of a .... 'Dance' ... 'Dancing' ... 'Dancers and Dancing' ... A universe of dancers (including you and me, all beings) are


      The Red Pine version, with many explanations and annotations, is also very good and highly recommended.



      Gassho, J

      SatToday
      Last edited by Jundo; 06-05-2015, 08:33 AM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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      • Anshu Bryson
        Member
        • Aug 2014
        • 566

        #4
        I am sitting this course with Kaz and Roshi Joan Halifax next month - http://www.shambhala.com/courses/the-heart-sutra.html - over my summer break. 'Lesson 4' is on Emptiness:

        Shunyata or “zeroness” in Mahayana Buddhism means the lack of concrete boundaries among things and the lack of completely independent existence. All things are interconnected. In this lesson you will explore shunyata and contemplate the translation that Kaz and Roshi offer for this word: “boundlessness.”

        I am good with "lack of completely independent existence"; I am still trying to get my head around "boundlessness" as a translation of shunyata...

        A "lack of concrete boundaries between things" and "boundlessness" (I would read that word as: having no boundaries in a 'vastness' sense...) seem not to be the same thing to me...(???) maybe I'm misinterpreting; I am sure i'll find out when I get to 'lesson 4'...!

        Gassho,
        Anshu

        -sat today-


        Last edited by Anshu Bryson; 06-05-2015, 08:51 AM.

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        • Jishin
          Member
          • Oct 2012
          • 4821

          #5
          Hi,

          I liked Red Pine way way better. But that's just me.

          Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

          Comment

          • Anshu Bryson
            Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 566

            #6
            Finally able to figure out my kindle dramas (wouldn't sync; I've had three books in a queue for a month...!) and have Red Pine's now. Will have a look on the flight this evening!

            Gassho,
            Anshu

            -sat today-

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40597

              #7
              Originally posted by Anshu Bryson
              I am good with "lack of completely independent existence"; I am still trying to get my head around "boundlessness" as a translation of shunyata...

              A "lack of concrete boundaries between things" and "boundlessness" (I would read that word as: having no boundaries in a 'vastness' sense...) seem not to be the same thing to me...(???) maybe I'm misinterpreting; I am sure i'll find out when I get to 'lesson 4'...!
              I offer that this "empty/boundlessness" is not unrelated to what was chewed on here ...

              Today, "Chapter 9 / Everything's Included" ... Though the hut is small, it includes the entire world. Some seed questions ... Has Zen Practice helped you get a feel (beside some intellectual understanding) of statements such as the following, and why this means YOU!? How is experiencing this helpful to


              ... although I again caution that this is as much experiential as words. It is like the words "making love" or "marshmallows" or "Mozart" and the actual wordless experience of the sweetness of each. **

              Gassho, J

              SatToday

              ** Not to mention making love while listening to Mozart and gobbling marshmallows!
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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              • Jeremy

                #8
                Originally posted by Jundo
                I offer that this "empty/boundlessness" is not unrelated to what was chewed on here ...
                Could it be that emptiness morphed into emptiness/boundlessness when Mahayana Buddhism got to China and bumped into Taoism?

                Gassho
                Jeremy
                Will sit this evening

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40597

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jeremy
                  Could it be that emptiness morphed into emptiness/boundlessness when Mahayana Buddhism got to China and bumped into Taoism?

                  Gassho
                  Jeremy
                  Will sit this evening
                  Hi Jeremy,

                  Oh, I believe that is the general consensus among historians, that Chan/Zen is Indian Buddhism meeting Chinese sensibilities/Taoism. (Actually, not just any Taoism, but a particular flavor called rendered in English as "Dark Learning"). On the other hand, Daoism is not Zen nor Buddhism.

                  This thread touches upon the topic some ...



                  Gassho, J

                  SatToday
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Risho
                    Member
                    • May 2010
                    • 3178

                    #10
                    I had this book in my hands, at a local bookstore, but I put it down. I will check it out from the library (I absolutely love the library. lol) and will likely buy it, but the reason I put it down is the new word for emptiness.

                    I think the common explanation goes (or how I've read and heard about it most often) is that Emptiness means things are empty of an independent self; empty can be confusing, because in English it makes one think of nothingness, a nihilistic approach that Buddhism is certainly not pointing to. Boundlessness is a good word, but I thought, do I really need another word for it? I don't know, maybe, or maybe not. I remember a while back commenting on emptiness thinking I had it. Hans mentioned something, and I replied, man I really thought I got it, but now I just don't know. His response was yeah, thats' the beginning. I'm paraphrasing, but the point is the "don't know".

                    And I like that. Of course we need words to communicate, but I think (well I know I do this) that when we have a word or a definition of something we pinpoint it down, like we know that. But emptiness is beyond all of that, which is probably why there are so many words trying to describe it. lol

                    I'm no expert on emptiness - I mean I"m just not an expert on any of this by any means; these are just musings. So I think it's good to read new translations. I like what Jundo says about having at least 3 separate translations on something because it gives a more complete picture of what the original work is trying to convey. I've read multiple translations on the Heart Sutra. I'm sure this is going to be good; Tanahashi really does good work, and I like the Upaya Zen Center (which is Joan Halifax Roshi's zendo - just in case someone didn't know that).

                    But I wonder if I need yet another translation on this. I don't know if that makes sense -- and I know it's probably now completely tangential to this. hahahah

                    I'm a bibliophile, and especially when it comes to Zen material, so I'm sure I'll read it.

                    Gassho,

                    Risho
                    -sattoday
                    Last edited by Risho; 06-05-2015, 09:37 PM.
                    Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 40597

                      #11
                      Here is another translation of "Emptiness" ...



                      MU!

                      Which means .... NO! ...

                      ... although this "NO!" is no and yes ... and no no ... no yes ... yes no ... yes yes ... no no yes ... no yes no ... and just MU! ....

                      ... round and round mu goes ...

                      Gassho, J
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                      Comment

                      • julie
                        Member
                        • May 2015
                        • 14

                        #12
                        I find it funny how we need words, semantics, context on one hand, and then on the other there is the wordless understanding that we try to hard to pin down with words and it always escapes, but is unchanged. I suppose it is for accuracy of verbal understanding that I wish I could read the original languages and get the nuance. But we'll have to take the cultural transitions and transformations as written. My busy mind likes to imagine those times. Time goes from present to past. Chatter chatter...just breathe, Julie!

                        Gassho
                        sat today

                        Comment

                        • Myosha
                          Member
                          • Mar 2013
                          • 2974

                          #13
                          Dear Julie,

                          A wise person said, "Words are the yoke/joke of philosophy."

                          Know yourself, forget yourself. Then hug a baby.


                          Gassho
                          Myosha sat today
                          "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40597

                            #14
                            Originally posted by julie
                            I suppose it is for accuracy of verbal understanding that I wish I could read the original languages and get the nuance. But we'll have to take the cultural transitions and transformations as written. My busy mind likes to imagine those times. Time goes from present to past. Chatter chatter...just breathe, Julie!

                            Gassho
                            sat today
                            Zen Words are often like pealing the onion to get to the core. One peals and peals, but in the end there is no there there.

                            Actually, Dogen and many other Zen folks of old (who spoke and wrote a lot of words on Zen) did not really have a problem with all words, because some words are "turning words" which can fully express the inexpressible. Zen is about getting "beyond the words and letters", and the categories, valuations, divisions they represent. But Master Dogen also felt that the Silence was preaching right through the words too, but we must be tuned to hear. The categories, valuations and divisions are no problem for the eye undivided.

                            More words on wordlessness here ...

                            Words and Buddhist Ideas alone are not barriers! There is a time for all words and categories to drop away. There is a time for the dropping away of words and categories right in and through words and categories.

                            Dogen ... the master wordsmith ... held well expressed language to be the very essence of Buddhist Truths. For Dogen, suchness was not a matter of rejecting or embracing silence or speaking (there are right moments for each) ... but of how what is said, the well turned and turning phrase. The right words and Buddhist ideas do not simply describe Truth, but dance Truth itself, are True Dancing. The moons illuminates all things ... words no less ... and words illuminate the moon.

                            Properly Illuminated words are not simply 'the finger pointing at the moon which cannot be described in words'. Enlightened words are the Very Moonlight.

                            "There are many misconceptions about the nature of Zen teaching and practice. Zen teaching simply means not attaching to language… Zen meditation points directly to our minds so that we attain our true nature. Because of this emphasis on attaining mind over mere conceptual understanding, people often think that Zen is anti
                            Gassho, J

                            SatYpdau
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Ongen
                              Member
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 786

                              #15
                              Thank you, I think it's a beautiful translation.

                              Gassho,


                              Ongen / Vincent
                              Sat Today
                              Ongen (音源) - Sound Source

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