Science and Spirituality

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  • Heisoku
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 1338

    Science and Spirituality

    Hi all, apologies if this has been posted before. My youngest son showed me this in his curiosity about what I thought.

    I said he needs to sit and find out and stop thinking!
    What do you not think about it?
    Gassho
    Heisoku
    Sat today.
    Last edited by Heisoku; 03-28-2015, 04:57 PM.
    Heisoku 平 息
    Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)
  • Troy
    Member
    • Sep 2013
    • 1318

    #2
    I like it. Thank you for sharing


    ..sat2day•

    Comment

    • Jika
      Member
      • Jun 2014
      • 1337

      #3
      Oh, thanks Troy!
      I like it too, only I thought I had to say something Buddhist or nothing (hm, in the relative sense of there being a difference...).

      So, thank you, Heisoku, and thanks to your son!

      Gassho
      Danny
      #satwithheisokutoday
      治 Ji
      花 Ka

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 39477

        #4
        Originally posted by Heisoku
        Hi all, apologies if this has been posted before. My youngest son showed me this in his curiosity about what I thought.
        http://http://youtu.be/N0--_R6xThs
        I said he needs to sit and find out and stop thinking!
        What do you not think about it?
        Gassho
        Heisoku
        Sat today.
        For some reason, I cannot get the Youtube link to work. Might you repost it?

        Gassho, Jundo

        SatToday
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Heisoku
          Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 1338

          #5
          Hi Jundo,
          My son found it on this site

          You may need to scroll down to find the TedX talk with Jeff Lieberman.

          I inserted the URL with a double http:// so have now amended that in the first post.
          Gassho
          Heisoku
          Sat today.

          PS if you look at Jeff, he looks like he has worked it all out, but has not experienced 'it'
          yet. I know the feeling....I am still trying! Good luck Jeff.
          Last edited by Heisoku; 03-28-2015, 05:00 PM.
          Heisoku 平 息
          Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

          Comment

          • Troy
            Member
            • Sep 2013
            • 1318

            #6
            Science and Spirituality

            Originally posted by Danny B
            Oh, thanks Troy!
            I like it too, only I thought I had to say something Buddhist or nothing (hm, in the relative sense of there being a difference...).

            So, thank you, Heisoku, and thanks to your son!

            Gassho
            Danny
            #satwithheisokutoday
            Lol Danny! yes, I did not have much more to say.

            Ok, ok. I will say one thing. I don't think we humans have a monopoly on consciousness, intellect, emotions, etc. but other than that I love everything he said! Awesome video.


            ..sat2day•

            Comment

            • Myosha
              Member
              • Mar 2013
              • 2974

              #7
              Hello,

              Thank you for the link.


              Gassho
              Myosha sat today
              "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

              Comment

              • Ugrok
                Member
                • Sep 2014
                • 323

                #8
                I liked it too but i think he should read more buddhist philosophy. Basically, what he says is buddhism 101, with a few things that miss the spot; for example the stuff he talks about in the part about seeing is analyzed thoroughly in buddhist philosophy and the conclusion, especially in later buddhism and yogachara (correct me if i'm mistaken), is that you cannot say that what you see is "inside" or "outside". The part about "oneness" also struck me as quite problematic. I think he misses it when he says that monks etc feel that they are "one" with everything. Duality is completely in non duality ; non duality is not about negating separation. Separation IS non dual as well. This part sounded a bit naive and new agey to me.

                I think there is a huge problem when science tries to "get" this stuff, because it's just another conceptual model that is used to "figure out" reality ; and scientists believe they can do it. But there is no way to figure out reality by trying to figure it out. Especially with conceputal thinking. They will always fail. That's why this type of show is, for me, counter productive. You cannot convince people that it is interesting by trying to blow their minds because all of this is just thinking. In my opinion to be able to convince anyone you have to "be" it, you can't do it by talking about it.

                Still you can feel that this guy is convinced and very emotional about this, which is touching. Thanks for the link !

                Gassho,

                Ugrok
                Sat Today

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 39477

                  #9
                  Thank you.

                  Yes, the descriptions sound like Buddhist "Dukkha" (Dissatisfaction) and "non-self" and how we mentally recreate a model of the world within our ears, adding names, categories, judgements ... all Basic Buddhism 101.

                  But then he swings into simplistic, New Agey statements such as "We are just consciousness, we are just energy, just oneness". Kinda like saying that an ice cream sundae is just milk and sugar and sweetness.

                  He needs to Sit more, make speeches less.

                  Gassho, J
                  Last edited by Jundo; 03-30-2015, 02:46 AM.
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Tobiishi
                    Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 461

                    #10
                    Gassho to all...

                    I think this kind of talk is helpful for some. It is difficult to take a science-minded person and sit them on the floor in front of a stick of incense. There is a progression of thought from Big Bang Evolution Brain Science to "I am not me." To convince some people of their own inter-connectedness, you have to unplug them from pure physics first. I would upvote this video just for its simplicity in drawing down the "facts" and presenting them in a new casserole

                    Sure, many people here see it as flawed in some specific way... but specificity is best reserved for experienced cushion-warmers, imho.

                    -Tobi
                    (sattoday)
                    It occurs to me that my attachment to this body is entirely arbitrary. All the evidence is subjective.

                    Comment

                    • Heisoku
                      Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 1338

                      #11
                      Hi, just another thought. This was brought to my attention by my 18 year old son and it may be that this level of description and explanation has an appeal to that generation. I am trying to put myself in his shoes. I cannot know since I am not of his generation but surely if a talk like this can generate an interest in questioning the fundamentals of our existence then it can't be all bad.
                      Gassho
                      Heisoku
                      Sat today
                      Heisoku 平 息
                      Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

                      Comment

                      • Shoka
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 2370

                        #12
                        I believe often there is a tendency to think that only things that can be explained in a scientific manner are true. Which is why I think this video speaks to a younger generation. Also because it offers a solution other than just sit for a while and see the difference. The most striking part to me was when he was speaking about "Enlightenment Science + Engineering". I'm amused that he is so concerned with the fact that science should be studying what has to change in the brain so that modern technically can help us make that change. When he says, "Maybe it's possible that in our lifetime we could possibly eradicate human suffering," it's obvious that he is looking at the simple solution (go meditate) but wants a quicker fix.

                        But I will keep this video in my pocket, it's a great accessible introduction when I'm asked the question, "why do you meditate?"

                        Gassho,
                        Shoka

                        sattoday

                        Comment

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