Question on Ceremony

[sittingzen]

No.

[Jundo]

Jundo,

Question for you. Raised as a Buddhist, and also born in the U.S., I do not share the same sentiment as the generalization of Westerners that you mentioned above e.g., "humiliation" or "idol worship". Bowing and prostration is a way of life for us. On a personal level, bowing and prostration signifies the highest level of respect to the Dharma and also a complete surrendering of my ego. I have always felt this way. Any thoughts?

Gassho,

Lu

No.

[Genshin]

108 Prostrations at 5 AM. Every day. I used to practice with a Korean practitioner, sometimes I would join him. It's great exercise!

[Myosha]

Thank you.

UN-understood(?!?)^^


Gassho,
Edward

[sittingzen]

Jundo,

Question for you. Raised as a Buddhist, and also born in the U.S., I do not share the same sentiment as the generalization of Westerners that you mentioned above e.g., "humiliation" or "idol worship". Bowing and prostration is a way of life for us. On a personal level, bowing and prostration signifies the highest level of respect to the Dharma and also a complete surrendering of my ego. I have always felt this way. Any thoughts?

Gassho,

Lu

Yes, as Chuck says. Bowing before Zazen, we are also bowing to those sitting with us in the room (or, in this Sangha, everywhere), to the room ... to all space and time.

That being said, we do not necessarily think anything when bowing ... although I usually feel in my heart that "Great Gratitude" I sometimes mention.

I usually say this ...

----------------

We have some "bowing practice", and discussion of the many ways of seeing and "just bowing" bowing, in preparation for our annual retreat ... where there are times of prostrating (Raihai), done in a series or three (Sanpai) ...

Many Westerners don't care for it, because it is not part of our culture generally. We see it as humiliating, embarrassing, somehow "idol worshipping" or undemocratic. I am often asked to whom or what we are bowing ... Is it to some thing, god, place like Mecca, person or effigy?



I answer by saying that there is nothing that's true that is omitted from our bow. We might consider that we're simply bowing to the whole universe, and to ourself and the other people around us … after all, 'All is One'! The hands, palms upwards, are raised in a gesture traditionally symbolic of lifting the Buddha's feet over one's head, but that truly means lifting all things of the universe over one's head. It's appropriate to cultivate an attitude of emptying, letting go, receptivity and gratitude in our bows.

If there is some physical or personal reason not to prostrate, a simple Gassho can be substituted. However, there is greatness in the humility of the prostration.

No less, are we raising something up or ... seen another way ... is the whole world raising us up at the same time?

The Korean Zen folks are very big with the Prostrations, often recommending at least 108 each day.

http://london-zen-centre.weebly.com/bowing-prostrations.html

It is a powerful physical Practice. These days, I usually practice a deep Gassho during our Zazenkai and such. However, I engage in Prostrations also, during our more formal monthly Zazenkai and like times.

Many Tibetans (many Christians pilgrims too) will travel for hundreds of miles, prostrating with each step ...



Gassho, J

[Ishin]

Perhaps my question came off as a bit.. critical. I want to ensure that I am doing the practice correctly. Just as sitting down on a zafu and daydreaming about flowers is not zazen, I wanted to be sure I was doing these exercises with the right ceremonial spirit in mind. Thank you everyone for taking the time for helping me. Now I can drop understanding and just do it.

This post sponsored by Nike

Gassho

C

[Daijo]

108 Prostrations at 5 AM. Every day. I used to practice with a Korean practitioner, sometimes I would join him. It's great exercise!

[Jundo]

It is exactly what I said in a very wordy way Bro.

.

That's my special talent.

Gassho, J

[Taigu]

It is exactly what I said in a very wordy way Bro.

Anyway, don't mind.

Gassho

T.

[Jundo]

I will say it this way:

Sometimes in this Tradition we can understand a bit, then put all that aside just to practice and not need to understand. Then we truly UN-UNDERSTAND.

Gassho, J

[Taigu]

Please don't try to understand. In our tradition we practice first and then understand.

Gassho

T.

[Jundo]

Check out Daido Loori's book on "Home Liturgy" which does a lovely job of expressing bowing and other aspects of ritual.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8069-Recommended-at-home-liturgy

Some folks love ritual as an expression of Practice, others not so much. Both ways are fine (I actually am both ways at once!). But bowing, even a simple Gassho, is just a lovely "thank you" to others ... to life ...

Gassho, J

[Ishin]

Thank you Chuck and Jundo. I don't have a problem with this practice, I am trying to understand.

I think I do now

Gassho
C

[pinoybuddhist]

Rafael

[Jundo]

Yes, as Chuck says. Bowing before Zazen, we are also bowing to those sitting with us in the room (or, in this Sangha, everywhere), to the room ... to all space and time.

That being said, we do not necessarily think anything when bowing ... although I usually feel in my heart that "Great Gratitude" I sometimes mention.

I usually say this ...

----------------

We have some "bowing practice", and discussion of the many ways of seeing and "just bowing" bowing, in preparation for our annual retreat ... where there are times of prostrating (Raihai), done in a series or three (Sanpai) ...

Many Westerners don't care for it, because it is not part of our culture generally. We see it as humiliating, embarrassing, somehow "idol worshipping" or undemocratic. I am often asked to whom or what we are bowing ... Is it to some thing, god, place like Mecca, person or effigy?



I answer by saying that there is nothing that's true that is omitted from our bow. We might consider that we're simply bowing to the whole universe, and to ourself and the other people around us … after all, 'All is One'! The hands, palms upwards, are raised in a gesture traditionally symbolic of lifting the Buddha's feet over one's head, but that truly means lifting all things of the universe over one's head. It's appropriate to cultivate an attitude of emptying, letting go, receptivity and gratitude in our bows.

If there is some physical or personal reason not to prostrate, a simple Gassho can be substituted. However, there is greatness in the humility of the prostration.

No less, are we raising something up or ... seen another way ... is the whole world raising us up at the same time?

The Korean Zen folks are very big with the Prostrations, often recommending at least 108 each day.

http://london-zen-centre.weebly.com/bowing-prostrations.html

It is a powerful physical Practice. These days, I usually practice a deep Gassho during our Zazenkai and such. However, I engage in Prostrations also, during our more formal monthly Zazenkai and like times.

Many Tibetans (many Christians pilgrims too) will travel for hundreds of miles, prostrating with each step ...



Gassho, J