Instruments on Zen

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  • Kyosei
    Member
    • Feb 2012
    • 356

    Instruments on Zen

    Hi friends...

    What are the "musical" percussion instruments used ritualistically in Zen practice (mainly in temples, etc..)

    For example, I have sympathy for that block of wood "clappers", "mokugyo" "mokugyo" (I do my recitation of the Heart Sutra in japanese striking my bell stick on the ground) and the bells... I buyed me bells (a little one like a "bowl" and a smaller one)...

    Can aynone tell me briefly how each of them are used on temple cerimonies (the function of each one as the japanese name if one can... ) and what instruments an almost "layman", a practicing guy can use to embellish the ritual?

    Why, for example, one goes striking, then striking more and more rapidly the clappers, or the drums... or the bells... is there a ritual significance?

    I´m a musician too... then there´s why I´m interested...

    For those interested in hear me (poorly playing and trying to sing) click here

    Shakuhachi music interests me too... is there zen music... or zen "inspired" traditional japanese music... or any reccomendations?

    Gassho,

    Marcos
    _/|\_

    Kyōsei

    強 Kyō
    声 Sei

    Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.
  • Taigu
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
    • Aug 2008
    • 2710

    #2
    A quick go at answering your question:

    The mokugyo has the shape of a fish because a fish even when dead has open eyes, and thereore it symbolises awakening. It is uses solely to give the rhythm of sutra when we chant.
    The wood has also often the shape of a fish but this time the fish has a pearl in his mouth, practice ( zazen) and the treasure of awakening ( the pearl) are one, it is used to call people to the Zendo to sit. Striking more rapidly is also a way to convey that time passes quickly and one has to not procrastinate.
    The drum gives the time when priests are sitting.
    The big bell outside gives the community clues about things happening, call priests for activities or when sitting, it is hit regularly to help people to come back to zazen when they drift away.
    The Bell used coupled with Mokugyo symbolises wisdom .
    The metal is used to call people for the meal.
    The clappers are used as mokugyo, or to let people know that it is time to go to bed.

    But I am sure Jundo will have many more things to share with us.

    Gassho


    Taigu
    Last edited by Taigu; 07-20-2013, 01:25 AM.

    Comment

    • Geika
      Treeleaf Unsui
      • Jan 2010
      • 4981

      #3
      Thanks, Taigu. I didn't know the meaning of the mokugyo's fish shape. Poignant image of presence.
      求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
      I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

      Comment

      • Kyosei
        Member
        • Feb 2012
        • 356

        #4
        Originally posted by Taigu
        A quick go at answering your question:

        The mokugyo has the shape of a fish because a fish even when dead has open eyes, and thereore it symbolises awakening. It is uses solely to give the rhythm of sutra when we chant.
        The wood has also often the shape of a fish but this time the fish has a pearl in his mouth, practice ( zazen) and the treasure of awakening ( the pearl) are one, it is used to call people to the Zendo to sit. Striking more rapidly is also a way to convey that time passes quickly and one has to not procrastinate.
        The drum gives the time when priests are sitting.

        (...)

        But I am sure Jundo will have many more things to share with us.

        Gassho


        Taigu
        Taigu, I´ve heard some of these instruments at Busshinji Temple (a Soto Zen Temple, lead by Sokan Dosho Saikawa Roshi), in the city of São Paulo here in Brazil; I´ve heard that drum (think they call it "Taiko" if I´m remembering well), and it was used along with a Bell, yes... to "mark" time... but I didn´t understand how exactly... Thought there was *number of beats on Taiko* = hours... *number of beats on suspended bell* = minutes... I do remember, as well, that the large drum ressonates in all parts of the Temple... at least I though so! A very penetrating sound, a call to "reality"...

        It was a good remembrance because they used to chant the "evening gatha" too, after the last period on the night... in japanese and portuguese I guess.

        I made some research here in Internet and found out this, without these precious details brought to us by Taigu...

        Thanks, Taigu... looking forward for some more comments on this subject.

        Maybe there is some book on this subject... on how those instruments became used in Japanese ritual music... were it brought to Japan from China... I mean... ritualistic zen music... Does anyone here knows...? please share...

        Thanks again.

        Gassho,

        Marcos
        _/|\_

        Kyōsei

        強 Kyō
        声 Sei

        Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.

        Comment

        • Taigu
          Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
          • Aug 2008
          • 2710

          #5
          The very best for you is to go to a practice place and experience these sounds with your body-mind in stillness and motion, to learn through being and doing, hands on. And yes, most instruments did come from China with a few adjustments. No English book as far as I know but some stuff in Japanese, I have seen a couple of books on the subject.

          Gassho

          Comment

          • Myosha
            Member
            • Mar 2013
            • 2974

            #6
            Thank you teacher,


            Gassho,
            Edward
            "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40134

              #7
              By the way, here is a nice list of many of the traditional instruments, bells and drums, found around a Zen temple in China or Japan. (The descriptions are in English, Japanese and Hungarian!)



              Gassho, J
              Last edited by Jundo; 07-22-2013, 03:10 AM.
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Kyosei
                Member
                • Feb 2012
                • 356

                #8
                Thank you, Jundo. Will read the page.

                Does anyone know anything about "zennish" music... Shakuhachi, and like?

                Some time ago, I knew a musician here in Brasil who arranjed and recorded some traditional Sutras... so cool.

                Here is his link: http://www.franciscocasaverde.com/zen_audio.html

                Gassho,

                Marcos
                _/|\_

                Kyōsei

                強 Kyō
                声 Sei

                Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.

                Comment

                • Myosha
                  Member
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 2974

                  #9
                  Nice recordings. Downloaded 'Sutra do Coraçäo en português. It's a keeper.

                  Thank you Marcos.


                  Gassho,
                  Edward
                  "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

                  Comment

                  • Jakuden
                    Member
                    • Jun 2015
                    • 6142

                    #10
                    This is an interesting old thread I found, thanks Kyosei and thanks for the link to the page with the names and descriptions Jundo.
                    Gassho
                    Jakuden
                    SatToday


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment

                    • Washin
                      Treeleaf Unsui
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 3773

                      #11
                      Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
                      Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
                      ----
                      I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
                      and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

                      Comment

                      • Tairin
                        Member
                        • Feb 2016
                        • 2804

                        #12
                        Thank you for finding this thread Jakuden and for raising the initial question Kyosei. Like Kyosei, I am a musician and am fascinated by the sounds Personally I have long been enthralled with the Tibetan singing bowls which I realize are unrelated and yet related to Zen. There is really something ear catching about the sharp sound of the mokugyo.

                        I appreciated the link Jundo posted above.

                        Gassho
                        Warren
                        Sat today with bells
                        泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                        All of life is our temple

                        Comment

                        • Myogan
                          Member
                          • Aug 2015
                          • 375

                          #13
                          A show I saw recently


                          Back before I started Zazen and continuing to present , I used a bass recorder or Irish whistle as a breathing exercise for relaxation

                          Sat
                          Marc Connery
                          明岩
                          Myo̅ Gan - Bright Cliff

                          I put the Monkey in Monkeymind

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                          • Byokan
                            Treeleaf Unsui
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 4288

                            #14
                            Neat-o! Love shakuhachi. Thank you for the link, Marc, I'll enjoy watching this.

                            Gassho
                            Byōkan
                            sat today
                            展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                            Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

                            Comment

                            • Ryumon
                              Member
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1785

                              #15
                              Instruments on Zen

                              I love the shakuhachi too. I was thinking of getting one but everything I've read suggests that it's pretty hard to learn. Plus the notation is complex and is n Japanese.

                              Gassho,

                              Kirk


                              I know nothing.
                              I know nothing.

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